If you're going to, if you're going to say if you're going to say I did it for Gamb and it's Gamb and I'm M the bankrupt. You got to stand up like that. You look like that. you look like that.

you got say xqc morally bankrupt Lord Gamb addict him ask if you join for 10 mil I mean I don't think she can but yeah I'm not going to R I'm not going to R I'm not going to do that I'm Ching now no and it's not cuz I got like $10 million what do you change to give a 10 mil contract L it's just cuz I'm good as I am. Why would I compromise my morals and ethics for more money when I have money? Something about that is she she can't um I do believe that she has an an agreement if you look at her um stream hours before um, the last couple years or last. um I think she she was doing really great at the time I think she sign a good agreement uh uh with Twitch that isn't Performance Based and has a little bit like minimum hours and she streams her minimal hours and rites her contracts out right? So I don't think she could get out of her contract to get a new one and it's very comfortable right now. I'm pretty sure that's how I think a lot of people have that I think a lot of people have that.

So basically, even if she wanted to I don't think she' be able to. So yeah, so cringe to me personally like I I Understand Understand you know if you if you need to make money right for wait what like I I Understand you know if you if you need to make to me personally like I I Understand you know if you if you need to make money right right from for me to do cringe when I have my I can't like ew how do I can someone put this into words better than I can. It's almost embarrassing. Nope What? No and it's not cuz I got like $10 million.

It's just cuz I'm good as I am. Why would I compromise my morals and ethics? Wait Morals and Ethics about what? wait you have to. You have to go specific. You can just say morals and ethics I mean ethics is pretty obvious when you talk about other topics morals and ethics about about about what what morals and ethics is there to breach for more money when I have money something about that is so CR I I I I don't get it to about what Oh okay I get it.

my bad I I I was cool. Okay it's the same Gamba equals win argument. So basically now that oh so now instead instead of doing doing winning the argument now it's layering morals and ethics On top of that, it's stacking the deck as much as they can saying Gamba win l w that's what it is. Okay I get it, it's a classic I'm not pressed I Just think it's kind of weird to throw bit in the under under that under that pretext because later down the line when they're all proven wrong right, nobody will go back and correct them.

say say hey, you know what guys, it wasn't about gam but I was wrong about this. So I didn't their rules and ethics weren't at breach? um my bad, they're not. They never go back and fix fix what they said. the damage that they've caused with these stupid ass comments they never do.

um how about how about we talk about the uh, the Amazon and the um uh DraftKings deal? How about that we talk about that or we're talking about um, her close friends that all took uh ACR deals or we could talk about um, her her other close friends that took um, steak deals that gambled on a daily which end up ended up using more of Their audience than I did off Gamba and actually had more stream hours on the sites than I did. What about those? Oh okay, okay, those aren't Those aren't morally and ethically mup are they okay? Got it Makes sense to me personally. Gotcha like I I Understand, You know if you if you're going to call out dog as you say it's dog, you call out all of it. If you pick and choose your battles based on what looks better to the public.

you are, um, soft. you are. You're like goo. You have nothing to stand on, You're just going to be wobbling around and jiggling or whatnot.

You're not. You're not doing anything of substance if you need to make money right from for me to do cringe when I have my I can't like it's not about it's it's not a lot about is I think there was another clip right I think there's another clip hold up? Nope. How do I also I want to specify I'm talking about me personally after all the things that I've been outspoken about and where I stand I mean Amazon money is all like I mean I don't I I like Amazon I like the product okay, but isn't it like like sweat shop like no bathroom breaks employees super hardcore squeeze bad working conditions, hardcore inhumane workplaces and whatnot. okay and Gamba deals too.

so both both P champ No Union smoking. Uh, that pack. Crunch it down to a crisp POG champ. But gamble juice not po champ.

Morally ethically bankrupt gotcha, and morally and ethically in regards to certain things, it would be really, really cringe for me to stream on K like there's no other way to put it. You know, for example, like X he's been gambling. he's been about it so it makes more sense for him. But for me, it's imagine.

Oh I think I know why it's because it looks desperate. no oh no they went there I would rather make zero dos and keep my dignity. For me, my dignity oh my God it's stuck in my head no that's so embarrassing. Maybe that means it was kind of good though.

Oh man I'm not I'm not. oh man oh man. So anyway saw this smash news sort of I didn't watch the full video so if you guys would like we can watch that. um I wanted to look at the tfue thing you know oh wait it's this but I didn't realize it was 40 minutes.

So so what do we do we to exit what we going to do and like crazy this one chat am I am I crazy or not chat am I crazy or not I don't get it. Have I lost my mind already? Have I lost my mind already or not dude e Also I want to specify I'm talking about me personally after all the things that I've been outspoken about and where I stand morally and ethically in regards, you know what? it leak your contracts Leck it Le it Le the contacts what I should leak theirs I don't even make sense at this point I think I I think I think people saying I don't do for money right? These is all they all have deals and okay listen I'm not going the bus that hard. Okay I know the contract specifics because they told me so I'm not going to leak it ends up being public. It end being public.

Every person that's a big Shimmer that that went against the flow and try to be a ass about it. They are all on the onetoone twitch agreements that are very rare to have. There's only like there's only like these days, there's only a few. There's a few.

There's only a few. Okay, okay, they're all on the onet to one twitch agreements. And the fact that they um, diluted their efforts and like their their passion into uh, signing money deals and say that they wouldn't sign for money is incredibly Rich When they're they already did that, they're already on that guys there guys. I I Don't think you guys understand that all these people are already on those deals current as we speak.

They're in those deal right now. She is on it right now. So it's like it. What do you mean you wouldn't take a deal for money.

You are on a money deal to certain things. It would be really, really cringe for me to stream on Ki like there's no other way to put it. We know for example, like X he's been gambling. He's been about it so it makes more sense for him.

So the the see: this is like gamb equals win gamb. the G go win I didn't I didn't gamble um for the longest time and I and I could have. everybody knows I could have been I could have went to blaze or whatever. the I could I could have done the Clash whatever.

the I didn't I didn't when I told you guys I was I I generally got tired of it I just was I just was. That's just that's just that's just about it. I Don't want you say lies guys guys. gambling isn't Bann it's guys like what.

Look at all. this gam is isn't banned, it's just not. uh. I don't know what you guys on about I could have used other sites and other and whatever these are not regulated.

No, they're not. It's it's it's the same concept. It's a it's a copy and paste of the other website. Guys, it's a copy and paste of the other website quite literally.

There are some things chat. It's kind of like the Pirate Bay right? you? You can't really kill a concept. It's not one doing it, another will do it and everybody's doing it and it'll just replace whoever's at the top. and people complain about it's they will.

Just it's like, um, it's like it's like pinball when there's the balls at the bottom and you lose one, then one comes up. No one comes up. No, it's like it. Just it's like it's like a gun mag, bing bing bing and it's just going to keep.

It's just going to keep doing that right. Um, up until you outright ban all of it. and I think the reality is that. um just kind of how it goes.

yeah I mean I mean there's more Dam blow on Twitch as it is on Kick Right now, it's just going to how it is. my ratio probably not the same amount right? and it's why. uh I think once the next run of signings happen, um, the gambling like session will probably be eclipsed. You probably even more than Twitch I think um, with the next 30 days I'm saying 30 days, it's probably going to be more like two weeks.

The next one of signings are massive. They're incredible and I'm super proud of it. I I I generally am I'm I'm excited for it. and when people figured out um when the ecosystem kind of kind of stabilizes and there even there's even less gamble compared to the the main deers ship right? um I hope these guys come out and say guys, you know what maybe I should have said that I hope that these going of fix the damage caus because I think it's it's getting old guys I think it's I think it's getting old I think it's getting old.

Um, a lot of the people that are also anti- Gamba Believe it or not, the people that are signing over actually hate Gamba and they're signing because they believe in in the product quite literally. Uh, they leave them what we're doing. so all on the one to one uh, agement and the fact is DED she is efforts and she their passion into signing money deals and say that they wouldn't sign for money is incredibly Rich when they're they already did that, they're already on that guys you question mark is they they know I'm right, you're completely misunderstanding The point For starters: I talk about oh a misunderstanding. Ah okay Ex: you see I'm not talking about you all I said was for me personally.

If I'm going to stand against gambling, listen, if you're going to stand dud and call me morally bankrupt, you got to say it with your chest bro. If you're going to if you're going to say if you're going to say I I did it for Gamba and it's Gamba and I'm more than bankrupt you got to stand up like that. you look like that. You like that he say xqc morally bankrupt cck Lord Gamb addict him You got you got to go Boom you got to sit with your chest man otherwise it just comes off as weak sauce.

It's weak sauce. otherwise man I'm just saying man it's weak sauce and then I take a kick deal. It's very clear that I'm doing it for monthy right? do I it. but it would be me going against my morals and ethics for money if you.

Nope Nope, doesn't make sense. sorry no, do I it. But it would be me going against my morals and ethics for money. If you no are not against gambling and you go on kick that that adds up.

But for me, it would be very clear that I do that only for money. No saying that I have a twitch contract. Oh about that all on the one to one to be privileged enough to get a sick contract of course I'm going to do it only for money saying that I have a twitch contract I've been a twitch streamer. so for me to be privileged enough to get a sick contract of course I'm going to do it so like, what are we huh? wait I don't get it arguing about does it make sense saying I wouldn't go on Kick no matter the amount that has nothing to do with your decision-making process I even explicitly said for him, it makes more sense.

for for me it would be kind of weird. there isn't the same kind of gambling. Crypto gambling is what I was mainly oh oh no this again. no no, not this again.

I Can't I can't I can't oh my God Okay move the go post. Move the go post. Somebody Get the contractor. Get the yo yo yo yo yo yo I can't I'm no not doing that.

not today I Go posting I can't I can't I can't guys no sh's calling me ands and scale them and and keep going and just an obstacle course. Oh no no no oh n what's my name listen oh listen listen listen I listen I am not even M okay I'm I'm I'm not kidding I I am not M okay I'm I'm just telling you okay I I the the things you're pointing at if you're if you're going to go there you, you got to send it. Otherwise it's it's you Got to you got to send it I'm just telling you I'm telling you XXX you're being deated right now really bad. Let just hear me out, hear me out and then you can fully disagree.

Okay, just give me a minute or two. Okay, yeah, it goes. Whatever clip you saw, let me tell you in its entirety what I said okay I said if me personally if I switched to kick, that would very clearly be hypocritical. how can I get a welcome to the money, right? Considering the stances that I've taken in the past against crypto gambling Etc right? say wait I was just I was saying for me I think that would be a bad look but for X someone who's always been for that, it makes more sense.

That's all I said yeah you see the the see the main problem that happen with that initially right? Is that is that the whole idea? So people, it's I think it's a very very Lwh hanging fruit to go with the argument of like linking a kick to gam because a lot of people are doing it right and it makes a lot. It makes a lot of sense because oh oh guys, it's it's um, it's some of the management and some of the people from um from Stak so it's that's their entire funding. Okay, um right. so are you for in Humane conditions for working and no Union and all of that are you for? That is is is that where your morals land I Get it dude.

but proximity to those kinds of things matters a little bit. Is Amazon perfect? No. but what is this? What about ISM huh? And listen, that's your take right you're saying for you maybe Gamba a little bit bad Amazon a little bit bad. so you're comfortable doing all these things right.

For me personally, I've taken such a strong stance against what stake does for me to take money that comes literally directly directly from crypto. gambling would be so silly. Okay, um okay and I feel like once I win the the argument there I You just going to go post back to saying well it's the it's the unregulated one. oh there's some on Twitch well these aren't as big and well twit is on on.

Try trying to ban these ones and well, and it seems like we're always moving the goalpost somewhere else when uh, the arguments going of uh lose traction I think that's what it this has been about. pretty much that that was been the only problem I've seen I've seen a lot of uh I've seen a lot of people say like, you know, moving the goal poost. My whole point with what I said is just saying that the goalpost has remained the same for me. I personally don't want to be affiliated with crypto gambling I'm not for it.

Do I love gambling in general. No. but I don't want that issue to become worse. That's it.

So actually the goalpost has remained the same for me. If I started dick, ride and kick, then the goalpost has changed. Then all of a sudden I'm like, well, well, cake isn't stake in and of itself so it's okay. that would be the goal.

close changing Yeah, uh, okay, yeah. I think I think that in it of itself. uh, for your thing kind of makes I don't think that's what that's where the go was at. But okay, listen.

I I think the main point in all of this is that um, you weren't you weren't there in those talks. So I get you're working with less information overall, right and I think you're making conclusions that are a bit too quick, right? Please tell me what are these conclusions. How are they wrong I'm more than happy to know. So you know something called like a road map? You know there a road map when and there.

a game that really makes updates like they have a conent road map. You know what that means? Yes, they're plans as a company I know what a road map is I've co-founded two companies off. Okay, so the the the road map for the website um and the road map that that um I was in talks with right? Um, at first I was kind of like and the same idea as yours right? And then I start understanding that that is not the goal, not the plan and that is not the direction that they're going and probably never will never. I Think what you're trying to say is that they are not looking to continuously profit off of crypto gambling.

You know they want to create other revenue streams they want more of their revenue to come from. perhaps streamers or subscription. Oh, Stak always will. I'm sure Stak will right? I'm sure.

I'm sure that that website will not. You're not Ste will not become some some charity thing. No, that will always Gamba But what I'm saying is that we. Why are we arguing Huh? Because stake isn't kick.

Do you not understand what I'm saying is that kick is kick. They this is like it's a a A project. It's a thing they're doing. If St wasn't kick, why is Stake funding them in their entirety? Wait, are they different things? Yeah, But you can't just ignore the link between them.

Okay let's say um I'm a lottery winner I Win lottery All the gamblers they buy lottery tickets I win the whole thing I win a billion dollars I put have bit 500 mil into making a competitor website is my are my Endeavors clouded by Gamba are my are my things delegitimized by it? Are they is there a bunch not hit the lottery I don't think that's a fair analy whatsoever. Steak made the lottery Okay, uh but at that point they if use the fund that they have right a portion of it to Mak a project that it's on its own. It's a standown project to be a competitor of Twitch. Why? you can't compare one person hitting the lottery to someone not someone to a company that owns a crypto gambling website? Okay, that's just not a fair analogy.

So so okay. so since you're all about the numbers, I'm sure you know how much money they actually the people actually made off that website right? I think I don't How would I know that? Do you know it's clearly over 100 million? It's pretty public. Yeah they they they have a lot of money and you don't understand that that the project is is not a crazy amount comparison right? The whole, the whole is not. It's not a lot comparison.

It's like it's like a fun project right? And from my understanding, having talked not the train, not the dins, actual people at the top right? They want to make a good product, That's it they want to make for them, That's great. Okay okay okay and when the product is is Standalone from Gamba and nothing is linked directly to it in whatever capacity you want that you want to make and the people that are signed nobody does Gamba, Everybody signs to just make content and be about live stream then what the is a problem? I'm not trying to tell you objectively or not if kick is a problem. Okay, I'm just saying personally the position that I hold in this industry, the things that I've stood for and against in the past I personally would not make that change due to where the money that is funding Ki and all of the streamers that it signs exclusively comes from I am not okay with that root source and the proximity to it, that's it. And if someone else wants to make a different decision or the website becomes good and people enjoy that great I'm just speaking personally to me.

Uh yeah and I get that except then you spoke for me saying I'm okay with those things when I'm I'm I'm I'm not okay with that concept. the way the way you put it it's that's not even what why I was in In In It to begin with. So like you kind of just what concept are, what concept are you not okay with. oh that I'm somehow like morally bankrupt for the decision that I've made or whatever because after after what I didn't call call you morally bankrupt I Said this is where my morals and ethics stood in the past and it would be weird for me to change my stance on them just being offered multi-million dollar contract I specifically said for you, you made a I mean you did Partnerships with stake What? You've always been okay with that right? Um, if you think that that's morally void, that's you and then I was also uh um after learning and in talks I've understood that I generally believe and I wouldn't have signed if if this was a whole two gamble operation I Don't think you understand that I would have never signed it because that does your contract have a stipulation z z if you if if you want, if you want, if you if you if you sign an NDA I'll show the entire thing right and I'll give you the right fun and I'll give you the right to say whether or not there's anything of gamble in it that's kind of fun.

Be careful though, when there's NDA though means that you can't say about anything which is kind of. You have to be careful because I W I didn't know that well. I'm I'm just I'm just saying I'm just saying that Yeah, of course I would give you the right to say that there's nothing there's there's no g at the end, that's it. Um, if there is, if that's a truth, otherwise not sounds enough I mean sure.

Oh, let's do that. then first fog. Okay, okay regardless do you now understand what I was saying and how it's not only that it was imp personal towards you I actually separated it in a way where it's like that does not make Xqc bad because his opinion has been the same from the start just like my opinion has been the same from the start. I just feel like I just feel like if since you don't have the vision you don't understand it right? Is that um you don't like oh it's about my dignity and what and whatever about about you think it's is because when you say oh for me, moral ethic for me, um for me, uh, dignity and then for him blah blah blah blah blah it by implication you it kind of like it's kind of like shots fired that.

um I don't have those things. that's just kind of how it is like by default it's how you're going to sound. Totally understand how it might sound that way. but that wasn't my intention and the reason I mentioned you is so that it would make it clear that I am speaking to how it would look for me.

Specifically, your dignity kind of goes down when your opinion changes based on how much money someone's willing to give you. But for you, right? that should not be applicable or the case because you have stood by it the whole way through. So I I don't know why you or anyone else would implicate yourself like the shoe doesn't fit right. it shouldn't fit.

Okay, inherently that does make sense. Um I think I think just the way you word it kind of implies it by default. so like it, it kind of does make sense. Um, the way I worded it might implicate that too.

which is why I tried to call out you as an example where it makes sense for you, but it wouldn't make sense for me. Yeah, um yeah, yeah yeah, it makes sense. Is the the dignity part though I Feel like? um also I think your viewers are Whispering my subs and harassing them. If okay, chat, don't do that.

Don't Maybe that could not happen. That would be nice. like let's be for real. Also, me and X we're friendly enough that we can just hop on a call.

It's going to be okay. Okay, we can all relax a little bit. Yeah, true yeah. I mean it.

it, it did. it did sound. and also X I'm sure through your career there's been a lot of people who maybe like say one thing to you and then say some on stream like you know I've been there, done that I don't want to be one of those people. so if it ever seems that way, let's just talk it out.

Yeah, fair enough. um no no no I mean that that doesn't make sense. um okay so the only problem is that um It's Always by implication and since that Hassan does a lot, that's all. um it does that a lot I did couple days.

it's always by implication I am not Hassan I know Well, it does sound like that to people and then um, people build this cuz let let me tell you Okay, listen, listen, everything I do in life is all in right and I know for a fact that at our points in in I guess wealth or money. you understand that if there's not something that makes you feel fulfilled, do matter how much money you have, you're going to be miserable, right? And it's why it took so many months for me to to to to consider this deal initially because um I I had to believe in the project I had to believe that it was. It was something that that could be duable if I if I had a a part in making it successful and making a competitor and actually com out on top that was like super like um how would you call that like holy if even even if if the stream part ends up not being too crazy, what about it? I don't think it matters that much because I want to make decisions and do cool. That's like you know it's like um almost like a passion project and the passion itself.

I have in the project is enough self-fulfillment right? that money can't buy right? and that's something that on. Twitch I haven't had in a long time. Yeah I I Understand. Listen dude, you don't have to justify your decision to me or anyone else.

Well I'm just telling you I feel like you feel the need to and I'm sure there are a lot of people attacking you over it right now for like it's cool. oh no that's okay I'm not one of them I was saying. you know maybe if Hassan takes a kick deal that might be a little weird n he wouldn't he would I I I already asked him when I was uh visiting asking people on to and he said he wouldn't um yeah I'm I'm talking about me. my stands that's it.

oh I mean you're Lo you're locked the in I mean let's be honest I mean I know your com probably good for no what? like another another year probably like eight months I mean it. It is what it is. Listen, it's what it is. um even if you want to, you wouldn't be able to right? Well as you said, contracts end.

So also for tell me if you agree or disagree. for people being like oh, you're just upset that X got the deal and not you. wouldn't it make more sense if I wanted a deal to not be talking the way that I am? because as you said, you know maybe my contract's up in like 6 months. shouldn't I be sucking up to kick if I want to deal.

Oh, you don't have to explain it to me, you don't You don't have tol that to me, have to Justified To me, same same mentality here applies but at the same time it's like um if if you're I mean if you're locked in I mean you're locked in right? like I don't know how long your agreement is um not forever I'll tell you that much. um yeah, I know, um because I know for a fact. I mean listen, this isn't like a corporate secret. like everybody knows this.

it's like deals are Scar and scarce Amazon tries to uh you know, like Amazon's been trying to to get like money under investment without it being like a money syn so it's been like harder on that on that end. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. and there aren't that many good deals like there were before. Yeah, the deals are pretty much gone.

but so I promise you if this was about money, I would be acting very differently. Yeah yeah, um, it's why even at the time. um I don't like talking that much about about uh, people trying to make the people trying do other things because at the end of the day you want things to be better right? Like people want things to be better and everybody knows that. And you should know.

You know 100% that at at the high tier of streaming or whatever you get, you start to understand that complacency is trash and then there's no innovation. People get lazy, people, get whatever, and after that it's like things don't get better that applies for massive platforms. Also like honestly like you are not special even if you're at the top. Yeah, exactly.

That's just. that's just kind of how it is. So then um yeah so that that was a M point and um yeah. H son's been talking too.

Okay, so you should be add him to this call. Sure to the call Meed me. so that mother is snaking out man dead ass. let's talk about it.

Let's talk about well. how am I catching Strays in? Well basically Hassan um we're kind of done talking about me being a snake. So I think time we talk about you being a snake, take it away. Okay well I want I wanted to talk to I wanted to talk to Felix yesterday but uh I had to go get my ears uh cleaned.

Oh yeah, are are you okay, what's going on I was deaf for like 24 hours but that's different. we I'm in Japan right now. um and it's too early to go outside before everybody tells me. you know, go outside and touch grass I will be doing that later in my IRL portion.

Um but yeah xcc you said I was dog whis Ling I don't even know how I would be dog whistling. There's some questions I have for you about what you said yesterday. Yeah, go ahead. we can talk about whatever you guys want to talk about.

Oh no. Ask BR All right, what's what? what's going on? Well ask away you said you ask a question. Ask away. oh um you said I was dog whistling I don't even know exactly what you said I was dog whistling on but I would like to I would like to understand uh what you were talking about with that guy.

sounds like he is really fun at part um it's it's just the the it's just it's kind of like what pokei did. um well she kind of explained it but it's like it's like um, implicating and making the conclusions that one thing is linked to the other right as you go to dialogue and like it's like the the whole gam angle. Oh people, people understand that if I if I say if I if I say it it f it fulfills their thoughts about the gambling angle without debunking it or talking about it or having to talk about it at all. It's just it's just the people that know about it know and you're just kind of fulfilling that and you kind of know what you're doing.

so it's like it is what it is. You get it. I I I don't I don't know if that would be dog whistling I Think you're just saying that like I'm uh, bringing up gambling when it's irrelevant to kick. Is that what you're trying to say? Because I'm I'm explicitly like dog whistling would be um I don't know.

Like hiding my genuine perspective on a certain thing. Uh, which is that like gambling is bad, right? or unregulated. Especially unregulated. Crypto gambling is bad.

The wrong term? Yeah. I think so too. What? Um I think you used the wrong word. Uh, cuz that wouldn't be dog whistling.

All right. Maybe he was trying to say you were trying to did I missp speak unlucky? Yeah, it's just a word. I don't know what word he was trying to. Yeah, maybe.

but I don't think it's dog whistle. Dog whistle is kind of. I don't even know what it would be I don't even know what I Certain group of people will understand. Um, you want to maybe clarify what you were trying to say.

Um, yeah I mean virtue signaling. Yes, maybe that one not not virtue signaling High roing one please may roing I I I'll I'll into a vocab lesson I'll CL I'll clarify I'll clarify I I I I Feel like this whole like link? the Gamba thing I think it's like we talk about it like a been times and you guys keep like um um it's almost like you you kind of like validate the argument Without Really approaching it or talking about it right and it's like everybody just f it for what it is and you just kind of I don't know any time you talk about it I mean even Po did it today. Well you just you just talk about it and it's like I don't know. You never really actually talk about the gambling angle of it.

Um yeah and and what is what do you mean by the gambling angle? Like are you talking about stake being uh, the like main party for Kick Like Kick is owned by Stake. The reason why Kick was created was because steak like. Here's what I believe. Okay, I and and I've been very open about this: I believe that stake.

The unregulated crypto gambling website created Kick as an alternative platform so that they could have a like Basic Marketing arm You know what I mean 1% agree I think they saw I genuinely believe that I don't think they I don't think they got in the game and they're like oh, this is valuable real estate for us to have for marketing purposes. Yeah, I don't think they I don't think they built it because they genuinely were like I care a lot about the streaming space and I want to, you know, get involved in the streaming space I'm a big fan of streamers I think their goal very openly is to funnel traffic into stake Maybe not maybe not so directly and I think that's probably the defense X is going to use. So no, no, no I mean I don't have to use any defense because you you have the burden of provs on you, right? you have. You have to elaborate on what on what kind of proof you have that that that's what they want, right? General Business deduction Sure, go ahead.

continue. I I Here here's this is still technically speculation obviously, so you're right to say that. but uh, when I look at Stake and I see the top category being like predominantly owned by uh, slots, gamblers, or gambling on uh, Stake when I see that the website was created by the owners of Stake when I see that uh, the uh, like some of thear largest content creators outside of like Aiden and yourself and Bruce that they've recently picked up are often times, uh, like the most consistently uh, sizable audiences are often, uh, going to be roulette like, uh, gambling players, right? Um, so that's one reason that's not the main reason. The main reason still, obviously is that it's owned by Uh Stake by the owners of Stake.

It was created with con consultation from Train Rex who was Major people need to stop. He was a major slots player on Twitch and it was basically I Me: wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong yeah Train train. listen I Love Train Okay, no disrespect the train Train's involvement is extremely minimal. Okay and I think at this point creation you know train was like its main spokes person I think that's hard to refute that that that that's irrelevance.

Whatever whoever acts like a spokes person, he wasn't he wasn't he wasn't appointed as and in terms of the whole site as a whole and how big he is, he's eclipsed In In in both in both Equity influence size just because he he has Equity Just because just because his just because his Clips go on Lsf about it doesn't mean he owns a website I Think you guys are overplaying his involvement by long shot because it makes sense with the argument referring to his early involvement which was I was talking about his consultation I don't even think I didn't say he's a coowner I didn't even know he had Equity until you just said it I just said train consultation of development of the platform apparently his twitch bio says co-owner of kick So yeah yeah, so that that mean by default that that that's what it means and Shre has tweeted about how he's the third largest owner of Cck I Promise we will never touch your sub Revenue Okay okay and do you know what? what? What are the the size by comparison third could be third could be could mean anything and you know that right? Okay, we're getting lost in the semantics. We're getting lost in the semantics of the conversation. Well, no, that's extr. We're getting lost in the semantics of the conversation.

Um, I Didn't even know that Train was again U like a part owner, let alone the third owner, right? I Don't care about the size, even as a consultant hiring Train specifically after, especially after crypto gambling was banned on Twitch makes it seem like the timing is relatively odd. It's it's a little suspicious to, uh, launch this initiative. so publicly immediately after Crypto gambling was, uh, eviscerated on Twitch it seemed like they were looking for a new Avenue where they could just continue live streaming. and you know, get an Roi that way by utilizing like a live streaming platform whether it's their own or whether it's uh, you know, another big A, another big uh uh, website that that they could be streaming easily on so that they could keep driving traffic to stake.

Um, that was my. this is my speculation given the fact that it's mostly owned by stake and uh, live streaming is not necessarily a profitable venture to get into. it's a loss leader for Amazon and Amazon is a major company, right? Their goal is to basically capture the entire market and then start figuring out once they have monopolized the live streaming. SP start figuring out how to fill the inventory and start making it more profitable.

This is Amazon's goal. A separate goal also is to beef up their IVs structure which is when they go to websites like Kick or when they go to uh, Stake and Stake says hey, we want a white label Uh, we want a white label live streaming website and Amazon sells them that product which I believe Twitch Gates uh I don't know the the back end of that but I believe Twitch might even get a percentage of that as well. So that's crazy I hope you get clipped and you're up on Dexerto and people are on you for that take. Well, Okay, first of all, Pogy I think I think if there's one person who get on dick CTO all day, every day I'm getting cooked.

no stop. that's not even I Do know that you do get on unjustifiably on a lot of stuff, but trust me, I'm getting I'm getting clapped up all the time on that. From what I've been told by many, many, many uh Twitter users, you know there's no relationship or benefit to Twitch for the fact that you know Kick is using Amazon Services Well, I think it's going to be relevant I think it's that's kind of like flexing daddy's money. but yeah, that was my.

that was my argument on that one. Oh, that's actually a good take. What? So that was an interesting one. at least you said it's like flexing daddy's money I don't really understand that cuz like I probably have on Amazon the parent company of Twitch more than you have I mean we've had conversations where I've on Amazon I am the single largest human donator to the Uh Amazon labor union which Jeff Bezos is openly antagonistic towards um I'm not exactly fond of Amazon As a matter of fact, I've mentioned that uh, when we were talking about how like Kick is basically single-handedly kept Alive by stake I Talked about how Amazon uh, Amazon's hands are not necessarily clean either I mean I mean I don't know why you thought that.

that was like you're warning defending Daddy's Money your warning is a little soft on the Amazon part. Okay, let's Okay Okay, let's use actual actual adult words. Okay, yeah, yeah, Twitch is T is maintained by the inhumane practices and actual life squeezing sweat shop like conditions of employees. Okay, continue.

Yeah, Okay, cool. I mean if you can use a harsh wording for kick, use the same harsh wording for uh, Twitch and Amazon I have you're you're you're literally repeating something I said. Maybe you didn't hear me say it said that exact same thing. Yeah, but just now you didn't I'm just saying like I'm just saying like yeah, um I'm not saying that like Amazon is infallible I've never said that as a matter of fact I want to fix Amazon's labor practices is probably never going to happen.

Let's be real. but um, I'm perfectly aware of that. Okay, I think that that's I think that. That's for the record.

I've heard you literally defend sweat shops against Moist Critical. So I don't know what your take is on that matter, but chops go hard. Yeah, you're you. You and I have a difference in opinion on that.

But um, overall, that doesn't change the reality with uh Kick's funding mechanism being stake and Stake being a marketing arm in my opinion. uh, direct or Kick being a marketing arm in my opinion, directly to funnel more active users on to Stake.com Thank you. Make like I understand if you maybe want to compare the two, but I I don't even think they're comparable What you mean, how direct how direct streaming and supporting. And let's say you know, working with Kick who's entirely funded by um, Stake versus streaming on Twitch who was owned by Amazon I mean obviously I mean it's by proximity.

at least Initially, you're always going to have a close proximity that's like that's like that's that's like you're a family. You're always in some business like farming and then and then the get like their kid does something around the idea of farming when it's in close proximity. of course, like it'll be like that initially, right? But as it it expands Mak conclusions about where it's going and where it's going to be right by ratio and saying oh wait, how did we make conclusions about where it's going and where it's going to be? Wait, that's the whole Bas of the conversation. The the argument is that it is it.

It is made to fund gambling and it is made and is an effort to reignite Casino that they can remake some of the money on the platform. that is the B You've just said that like you guys so you don't you don't think I think I think that's A on their investment Yes, that's the reason why they're investing so heavily. disree I disagree in ridiculous capacity. Yeah I disagree with that.

100% What do? Well you have uh more Insider information than we do so I would love to hear your perspective on it. uh I might not agree with it, but might have some Insider information. but X don't you also think? obviously kick wanted to sign you so obviously they're probably going to tell you whatever you want to hear. wait what if if if I had the idea they want things they want things to be about Gamba they were talking me about Gamba Gamba is not my contract I Just told you gambling was never even in any talks of any kind, not even not even a slight part of it.

A little bit disingenuous to pretend that they don't care about Gamba or that that's not a prioritization on the streaming platform that they created because they saw how profitable gambling streams were. That's how it felt to me in terms of um, the I saw the road map and I'm building the road map right. Everybody that is going going to come up this this month it's going to be massive. This month it's going be in I'm not I'm not trying to be act like trying Oh God this going to be crazy.

No, this month is going to be absolutely hinged and most of the guys are assigned have been Not only not only didn't none of them Gamba they're all anti- Gamba right? And because they're so the same impression, owners of Chicken Steak are probably hoping that those viewers end up also seeing the gambling categories. maybe get curious. So so now not only are we doing speculation, you're also you're you're literally talking for the owners and talking for you're making out assumptions, speculating, and I think this is a this is a reasonable educated guess to make given how I'm not speaking for them or saying I heard this I'm saying that's my theory and I'm sure it's many, many people's and and and will you uh, revert when things flip on the other side or you going do like like all the time and just ignore and just say ultimately even if they X they're they're not even trying to profit off of their streamers. Where do you think the money is going to come from? Um, do you know something about something called Tech Know you know you know what tech is Tech overall technology.

Just the whole sector of of tech? Yes, Yes. Okay, Okay, so I don't want to be be patronizing you? Um, why are you so worried about profitability when none of this is profitable? None of it is like because that's what we're discussing. we were. You know we had the initial point that Kick is probably hoping to profit sorry, Stake is hoping to profit off of Kick as a marketing tool primarily for their crypto gambling website.

So you don't think that there's a chance that possibly on the road map. The point is to sign and clean the product up, to move away from gambling, to make a strong competitor that's all about streaming done with the market and then have, uh, profitable Endeavors and Rouse profitability and get there somehow, right? You don't think that's that's a possibility, you're you're completely hashing out. So that's you. Bring up a really good point.

Can be a possibility, but it doesn't change its origins or where it's at right now. Oh, so you're going to discredit where it's going. What's about because of Hold on? Hold on wait? Can I just can I just cut in here. Two things was just why I personally wouldn't align with it.

Okay, let me let me just cut in here really quickly. I can't tell the future Okay, Felix you're you're saying And and correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that? Uh, the reason why Stake is investing heavily into Kick is because they want to build up a competitive live streaming platform. not to Market Stake or anything like that, but instead to become a primary force in the live streaming space on its own with no genuine interest in like driving traffic to Stake.com Uh, and they're doing it in a way where they are like unimaginably unprofitable Yep, um, while simultaneously giving Amazon money like giving Amazon direct money in the form of uh, both AWS and IVs which is a carbon cop is a copy paste of uh, Twitch.

it's like Twitch reskin. basically Y And they're doing this because ultimately they want to take down Amazon's live streaming market share and become the main Monopoly force in the live streaming space. Yep, that's right. Okay, so Amazon owns AWS right? Right? as as you know, and Amazon still is having a hard time according to Amazon at least creating a profitable space for Twitch despite the fact that they have already monopolized the the the marketplace of live streaming right? Do you think that Stake, which pays Amazon to even do live web hosting would be able to ever reasonably become the Monopoly force in the live streaming space? So so when you talk, when you talk like that, you make assumptions.

right? One of these assumptions is super important. No, no, No. I'm asking you a question. This is not an ass.

I made Zero assumptions here. I'm operating off of what you told me. Yes, you're You're also making the assumption that there's going to be no alternative. The technology is not going to change.

It's always going to remain the way that it is right now, right? It's going. You're making correct that that, um, iws, it is the only thing and will always remain. It's always going to be like that you're making the Assumption by default that this is set in stone and will never change and technology is just stopped improving on that, right? No, I'm not making that assumption at all. I Mean you kind of are by default you.

You are by default that you need physical servers to be able to operate a website. Live Web hosting is expensive. Like really expensive. So expensive that the the actual dominant force in the web service.

Uh, the web hosting uh, side of things is having a hard time. Uh, making their live streaming company which already holds Monopoly market share in the live streaming? Uh, Marketplace profitable. Um, the the notion that stake would become a competitive player Uh, while utilizing Amazon services and paying them literally a profitable uh A A a profitable amount to be able to live? Uh to do this? Uh. Web hosting which is part of the reason why like when you joined the website it you know fell apart a little bit because like they didn't even have the bandwidth to do do so so they had to probably increase their uh bandwidth like they had to go back to Amazon and ask for more your expert your expertise on uh Sil capacity and initial releases and whatnot is very limited and when you talk about this it it's it sounds it falls on De ear.

okay um, releases and day one stuff is always bound to drive more traffic the same way that Blizzard in industry leader in gaming cannot have a stable release. on day one, it's just too much and that is. You can't seriously be comparing yourself liveing on a website which you can do on every other website. Perfectly fine to Blizzard releasing a game to an entire Marketplace for the for like Diablo launch is not comparable to you live streaming on Twitch versus live streaming on Kick The Reason why I'm mentioning this is because yes you're right Activision Blizzard up regularly with their services but those services on release day are like they have significantly more active users than you uh going from one website to the next do you for example here I'll ask you a question if you tomorrow decided to go to YouTube Let's say you got a contract to YouTube It was a massive deal and you moved over to YouTube and you live streamed for the first time.

Do you think you'd be able to effectively crash? YouTube No, You would be able to crash. YouTube No. Hold up, Let me talk. Now your knowledge about this is so limited since you went anecdotally about this actually.

I'm going to use an example that happened that actually happened only a couple months ago. the um, the The Squid Games event with all the YouTubers and streamers that we did on Twitch What happened on that day Twitch crashed right that drive In comparison. these things happen and that's the same thing. that's the same for ratio for kick.

Now we're comparing 10 to A, You know what I mean? That's the difference because the reason why I'm I I I Already understand that I'm accounting for you going from one live streaming platform to another competent live streaming platform versus one live streaming platform that is like very clearly not ready for the rate limit. Has there ever been a large streamer who went from one platform to another and their first stream crashed said platform? Wait wait there's been Brad on Twitch done That crash website. Yes, there's been what there's been Legends on Twitch that have crashed websit? No Yes, but I mean right and Hass is saying those are at a different magnitude. So perhaps instead we so the Go post moving from from is it possible to how big of a drive it is like like this argument is not you This argument we went we went from size of YouTube size of you can go to tomorrow and not crash them.

wait wait kick by go Facebook it wouldn't crash Facebook you probably crash Twitter because they're also uh, not ready for the bandwidth and not ready to like do massive uh video Uhi ises kick kick is smaller. What about it? like what? I Don't know why you guys Yes, the reason why I mentioned that they can't handle it. The reason why I mentioned that wasn't to The Reason I Mentioned that was to tell you that like kick itself, still had to go to Amazon that day and ask for more bandwidth so that they could handle One Singular Twitch Streamer Moving onto their website with a real audience unlike Aiden Ross by the way which never crashed the website for the record. oh he did but um yeah he did okay okay let's let's let's dial back a little bit.

yeah no I remember he did um okay kick is smaller got no, no, no, no, no, no you, no, no, you guys over something Point You're what you're saying is that the technology won't change, no progress will be made, and there isn't a point where there's a possibility that there's an audience flip and market share change Significant enough. Dude, you're the one making these assumptions. We never said that we're talking about kick see now and where it's come from. That's wafflin.

That's that's WAFF That's a classic. This is classic waffling. You're implying something, but you're implying something. You're you're implying something by default and then you back away from it once you've made the argument and you've tried it.

So like, if you want to stop making these arguments and stop doing it by default, then we could do that. But otherwise you guys are just. you're making an assumption by default. and when you called out on and say well, I didn't imply that, what kind of argument? What make an assumption I can't speak for Po right now, not kick to years from now.

Huh? I Think Pokey and I are talking about entirely different things. excc. you are right to a certain degree. If you're addressing me, I am speculating and I do not believe that Kick is in it to destroy the the uh, the market share of Twitch.

And the reason why I think that that is not a a realistic possibility for them is because they are working with Amazon to maintain their platform. If they move away from Amazon, they have to go to Microsoft or Google. Those are the two other major players in the marketplace with respect to live web hosting. Amazon is the dominant force in AWS Uh.

With with AWS, it's like basically the backbone of the entire internet the government uses AWS You know what I mean, right? right? So so these things, um, are they set in Stone permanently? No, they're not. Is your but I'm saying I'm I'm bu I'm building towards towards an argument here. Okay, fair enough. So these things aren't permanent right? There is progress to get people over to, to some to kick other platform and to progress to try to get a bigger market share.

Do you think there even the possibility that there is another way to do it? Another service? What? By that time by the time that the audience flips right to make the product actually successful or not make the product actually profitable Or successful to the point where things flip entirely. Yeah, if Amazon which owns AWS can't make Twitch Live streaming profitable, then a company that's coming and getting outside rates is never going to be able to make live streaming profitable unless they're profit mechanism is trying to say or make the assumption that stake is going to replace AWS with better technology once they get large enough you know and then they will detach from their relationship or need for any. Amazon Services Is this likely I Don't know Sur Not anytime soon. Thank you thank you I Don't think it's likely as much as I know like I do have limited knowledge in this space, but at least I know a little bit to tell you that No.

I don't believe that the tremendous amount of overhead and the tremendous amount of infrastructural spending necessary to become a dominant force in live web hosting can only be done by like, basically the multi-billion dollar companies that have been established in the space and have gotten government contracts for a very long period of time. Um I Don't think that I Do not think that Stake has the capacity even though they do have a relatively low overhead. Uh, and they are basically a money printer because you know that that is the reality. They're like pretty much $2.6 billion dollar in straight profit.

You know what I mean it's I Think they make like what 2.8 billion Um, Stake makes a stake, generates a revenue like gross revenue of $2.8 billion doll a year or something like that. I Do think that they probably are currently uh, basically printing money. Uh, and they do have low overhead. so they have a lot of money that they can spend for marketing initiatives, to continue expanding uh and and to continue growing Stake.

But even then, I do not think that they have enough to build these servers. I'll give you an example: when Amazon first started implementing their AWS initiatives, the amount of information that they had to send to servers were so vast. Uh, before they laid cables, they would send server trucks to each individual location to upload it to their hard drives. On trucks.

they're like this is an incredibly expensive operation uh to get started on. which is part of the reason why I would go so far as say it's an industry with a natural barrier of Entry an industry that to monopolization and you just said you yeah of course and you just said that they print money and you don't think that they're a they're a possible candidate to to achieve that task. If anybody can do it, it's them and you agree with that by default. You can't back away from that argument you? no? I I Don't believe that it's like you inherently agree with the fact if somebody can do it, has a lot of money and could actually take on the the the Big fight the Titan and that would be your candidate and you're going to disagree with that.

Yeah. I I Just don't think that they're going to do it because once again they H Microsoft has established live web hosting. Services Microsoft did the mixer thing while they already had the pre-existing Uh servers and yet they still were incapable of competing against Amazon and Twitch and they quickly dropped it. The product suck.

Now there is a big difference here. Stake doesn't have shareholders that they are accountable to. They can just do whatever the they want because it's just like a couple guys that run a crypto gambling website. However, even then it is a fool hearty.

Endeavor and I don't believe that they would do such a thing, especially because it would like they they get way more out of just running kick as a marketing arm for Stake.com Um, right. You actually think if that was the goal that would get, they would get money back on their Investments On that front even though the people that are signing are not gambling related and aren't going to do it, you think that? Yeah, no, it doesn't matter if every single person on Kick is gambling, What matters is that it's an active website with daily active users and with like some of the top content creators openly gambling on there and not every single content creator on Kick has to gamble. they're not creating additional sources of revenue. X because of these 95% Subs spits no ads Etc It's it's pretty clear your mental Ro M C Okay, the way you profitability is right now.

it's in two years they switch up completely. Okay, we can talk about that then. and maybe the road map is hey, we want to a big player in the streaming space I'm not saying that's not the case, but you can't argue that their gambling Branch or wanting to generate more users for stake and crypto gambling in general is not a massive part of how they make and need to keep making money. Got gotcha Gotcha! So now it would be the BR proof would be on you to create a link between the all the signings and all the people that are going to be on there right? And and how to link these guys with gambling even though they're not the link is the money.

uh the signings where the money comes from. That's the link to gaming. Okay okay no no that that is not how that works. You're working the arent backwards.

you're okay I mean you're' being dis generous I'm saying how they make money back cuz you see guys saying it's a funnel for Gamba you just said it right now now I said it from that point on you know it's gamb to begin with. let's say and but I think saw this already. they're hoping that honestly oh so they're hoping so oh you that you just like that they're hoping it. So what you're saying is that I'm I'm telling you I'm I'm telling you with my ins inside of knowledge.

Wow I'm giving you guys ins information that the next almost every Sig it's anti that will never do Gamba that would all be money just lost entirely. How will how do you tie that to gambling? How you tell these people to gambling and how does they make it because they don't need every single person G have more data than you know. They've clearly seen a correlation between just generally having more users on their website and more more likely users funneling into stake. That would that would be en wasn't gambling, but enough people were and that was enough for them to make money.

Now that they can't utilize Twitch, they decided having uh, unfettered access and unregulated website where they can have a shitload of live streamers on there and a shitload of daily active users on there will drive enough traffic to the gambling streamers on there and therefore to Stake. And I think Pokey is right. this is still ultimately a business want to make money and that's the return on their investment. The return on their investment is always going to be how many of the daily active users are they driving over to Uh H how many of the daily active users on Kick Are they driving over to Stake.com now I want to bring something back again? Uh, with respect to Microsoft Microsoft's market cap is like two trillion Microsoft's gross profit in 2023, in the same year that stake made 2 Uh6 billion was 142 billion.

Oh, you're one of those guys. I Get it? No. I Get it. that company Microsoft already has pre-existing Capital baked in to the live web hosting Services They've already spent billions of dollars building out this infrastructure and yet they still failed to make a profitable Venture on mixer And the point I'm always trying to get back to is what the what the goals are for stake cuz you're asking me like what why is Ste doing this got ready I got I I got you I got you brother then instead instead of using mixer as an argument or whatever because they have, they're big.

If somebody can do it, who would it be? YouTube YouTube Have all the components, the knowledge, the staff, the money, the traction, the server to make it profitable and good. And they have never been able to do it. And their market share sucks balls, right? right? It's almost as if what matters the most is a good product, right to make something successful. That, how is Kick's product? Okay, I'm talking about the future.

Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right because because we've had more changes on Kick in terms of check SP and product in the last three days that Amazon Twitch had on theirs for the last three years. So where's your argument now? Yeah, but Amazon and Amazon and YouTube can Amazon and YouTube can host you within this space one that time.

Go ahead. Hassan Amazon and YouTube can host you live with ease whereas Ki is still having issues with that because they're a relatively new company. Of course, they're going to keep making changes every single day. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's like a better product.

I Don't genuinely believe that Kick is a better product. It might become a better product I Want it to become a better product because I want this space to be more competitive. But let's be real. I'm gonna be I'm Gonna Keep it a buck 50 here I Don't think Kick is a better product than Twitch as it stands currently of.

especially because your your juicers probably agree with that. they they they want to watch you, they want to be able to watch you and they're having a hard time doing that. We have a multi-page Google Doc I'm hiring Devs as we speak and I'm doing Talent scouting to make it really good and that that that takes a bit of time I Think this this idea that because something is a certain state right now right and it's bound to stay like that, is this continuous and is anti-progressive and as a as somebody who's pures the left and the left side which is a progression I think it's very shortsighted. Progress takes time, progress takes time.

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