Hello Hanford versus hi everyone, you guys are both failing. Now you guys are both failing it. I'm really shocked I'm gonna. it's never happened my ex actually sorry about that, it's really bad and I'm I chilling the market entirely Let's Lose out no that's not.

that's not what I'm saying for the one spoiled note one is that another PVP or that enters the arena bro how many people born? What profit sharing and you want to take out their like blast about amount of income from Hollywood There's a big strike right now from the writers. Okay, thank God you have money because that's the only thing that's holding your stop reacting to my video I'm not gonna lie. yeah, do you wanna your goal for the Ethan debate. Are you trying to like, have a good conversation and everything or are you trying to? um, you're just trying to like get a big own on him I Think here's what: I think I Think people get jaded from a lot of things and that's okay.

it's just human nature right? Can I think I think his lawsuit jaded him about a lot of things about react content and then uh, transformative content I think it's molding is looking to get to really get a win. it's an emotional win, not a rational one. and I think I can get him on these points like to prove that his if all of his things are arguments are done added like not malice but you know like they're not, they're coming from the right the right place and they don't make sense and I can go on that. uh with that you know.

Okay, you know he's got like a whole group of people that like help them like research and everything for the show right? So you're gonna be up against it. Yeah, but a lot of a lot of a lot of arguments are kind of the same as um I really don't give a okay uh and it's kind of hard to go against a I don't give a because I don't care. he sees me in a way that like oh, that's like stealing it. Okay then I guess at that point I would be a FIFA messing I know and you know I'm I I don't really see a problem with that.

it's not like that. Okay, good job. All right. Well I mean I mean that I think I think I think if if if the effort the result ends up being transformative right, what do I care what his opinion is on it, it's it's within the legal rights at the same time I think it's also um I think I think it's I think it's morally okay in the most scenarios and then the ones that don't that we can operate differently or um, have different systems in place to make it better.

I'm all about finding solutions to new problems and exploring the positives of everything I think that react and watch parties are the future of content. Um. overall and instead of Um shutting from it, you should signify it better and find better. Solutions And he's just mad because since he doesn't do bad content, his motherboard making bang out of it and it's printing paper and the guy has none.

So I think it makes a mouth. it's voice bald. he's balding. He's great.

That's okay. Um I have a pizza. let me take off my necklace and I will get my pizza also. I'm give I'm dizzy I need sugar I think I'm having a sugar Now if only I had someone give me Gardens someone wise experience.

Oh no, absolutely not entertain the juicers. I'm just gonna go over my debate I Have no idea that's awesome, but it was pretty brutal guys. I Feel like I built him up as like this mythical character in my mind I had no idea that was going to be so unbelievably one-sided Oh my. God I Bought a two liter of pizza.

What's up bro? Do you say a two liter of pizza? two liter of Pepsi yeah oh Pepsi yeah, that's what I said. Depression 15 Event: you talk about 9 11. no, it was supposed to just be Ukraine Russia and then the Holocaust those were the two and then I did I did so much reading today on um on Ukraine Hey JC thanks for the 10 gifted Subs that's why I didn't scream for that because I needed to I need to study Yeah, that's right. okay.

I was losing a debate can just increase the stakes. You know, like people losing wind sometimes right? It makes kind of a character to lose sometimes. I think that's okay. Yeah, but I already lost this guy once.

so I don't know. Yeah I mean now you can say you did it on purpose to make a good Arc yeah oh no I lost the password. This is the completion of my Earth there's this Rand Corporation They basically do a whole write-up on Invasion into Crimea um and then the Don boss and then they go over like the pros and cons of this. So I Read this this morning and then there was a whole thing on the um torture that's happening in the Don boss up through 2015 basically as well.

but we didn't talk about like anything related to Ukraine Russia He just like gave up completely on the topic. Damn tough and and it makes you want to like just drop the whole thing right because that would be within your rights. but like you try to make content and not with everybody's time. So like you kind of stuck in it to argue things that you're maybe not as good or like and it makes them look good, but it shouldn't because they're at fault right? Well, I mean it wasn't a waste of time I mean like I'm glad that he didn't win that debate because I think it obviously I feel I have like a moral conviction to my beliefs here.

but yeah, what was that? Um, all right, give me give me a point. Eden has that you think, um, um I mean I I feel like the thing that he's gonna push you really hard on that most people probably intuitively aren't going to feel good about is that streamers have a default right to basically commandeer somebody else's intellectual property for personal gain. That's gonna be something that like I think an average person is never gonna like that opinion. Yeah, but what should I care though? Is it the other people I didn't say you have to care I didn't say you would care I don't know why you're asking I'm just you're saying that even if you think you do good honestly, you're you're gonna look bad and then everyone's gonna show you it's gonna be like a World's view debate.

Again, we're like it's all about Optics And if you're the guy who helps the poor and helps the people, uh, get money you are, um, a savior. So did he win by the ball And unless I crush him, it has to be like a 100 to zero win. So they really get anything done again. Still talking about like that pretty? much? Well, no, it's just I Don't think that your position ever looks good to an average person.

but on the actual attacks themselves I mean I I win by the Fall Pretty much right? Well, it depends on what facts we're talking about. we're talking about legal facts then probably not. But if we're talking about like does this hurt streamers or whatever then probably heard streamers I don't get it or I'm sorry, does it does it If you're if you're gonna argue if it hurts YouTubers you're gonna say I don't think it hurts YouTubers I'm even arguably win on that point because I don't think it's ever been proven that it has. But yeah, yeah, because I mean you would have to find data for that, right? Yeah, which is a really hard argument to prove even if it was happening.

Yeah, because it's introspect and it's a lot of like the past and the future and how these things work. So the staff themselves weren't going to be so much. Yeah, manipulate the algorithm in order to like it. um Garner's I think if if he showed that he was giving more content and actual knowledgeable and have anything of value uh Andy was doing that it was defined it but he's like really focused on like yeah Mickey and mocker out of it.

um just because all the views just use that and it's like it's just I think it's like a I'm gonna say how it is it's gonna be a little bit harsh but I think that's the vision that really bad Traders have. It's like a very like rookie bad um Shimmer slash bad YouTuber uh Behavior sorry sure I mean to be fair I think the guy is relatively successful, right? Isn't he? I think he's blown up. That is bad. that's what I'm saying I don't know about his whole chick as a whole I mean that chick is bad.

It's it's people that it's usually like very like old school cringe like ah by the way I did this with the views by the guys. Got them? It's like a uh, it's obviously the wrong way. You can do that if you have really good content and you're really going balls hard with it. but the way he's doing is just like I don't know it's gonna be awesome.

Okay, okay, this is just miserable Somebody said I'm listening and I figure H3hp is going to come at him pretty easily with the transformative angle. Xqc has talked before about how he considers it important to transform and that everyone is aligned, but he has approximately five minutes of input on vids that can be up to an hour long that are uploaded I assume even X would agree that's not transformative or not enough at least. And if you make if you make those ratios right, um, how what's transformative? The screen of the audio of the actual cutout like what it is, then react content is the react to the summit might actually be worse. Um, in other formats In the way the format that they want is not feasible.

For another thing. I react to again kind of made a video. okay then finally watch ass I Don't give a why don't the person who's injured here feels like this. um the YouTuber right? Not who's watching the stream insured.

If proven well, the injury would be the theft of copyright. They don't have to prove damages, the injury is just them. Like feeling like their copyright has been violated. Sure, sure.

which in practice nobody would actually care about because it actually helps them out and they know that. it's just we're just saying okay days. most has ever been anything these days. it's like really, really crazy these days.

I Feel like that? Um said a long time ago. It won't be arrogant. History like arrogance is just. it's not.

I'm trying. I'm trying to push arrogance is that there's just a very big lack of care. People that pretend that they care because all they care about is appearance of truth. But in fact, truth itself is on my side.

100 Because Unless you prove that it's bad or that they're damaging it, Who cares? Well, on paper like this, you shouldn't be No. I Don't think anybody cares. It's their old dumbass laws. It's all really bad.

Like this is oh my. God at this game is kind of crazy. Um also says that like he says just it's like you know I tried not to do that as often as I can to just make an assumption on the Fly and it'd be pretty damaging and not do I can correct it or apologize for it I think that's just bad I'm saying oh this guy only does this and it's just you've never done that well. is that the guy who did it like that crime and that never happened like I'm not a big fan of that and he never goes back and actually double checks and says like yo that was pretty bad Bad he doesn't do that and I think that's really really really really really really bad.

He did that to me all the time in that one that one video and I hate that and like I haven't done it once and I haven't even like there's been nothing about it and maybe these assumptions are it's seasonally damaging. Yes, if you're in a Christian narrative, right? well at least I'll put that and he makes no effort to go back and correct it. I think that as a concept is very very bad and I I I I wish you didn't do that. Uh, do you want like a warm-up argument for this or sure he's probably gonna watch this I'm gonna scream about ya.

Go ahead. Do you know Mahler is no? Should I care Jesus Can you be respectful? He's a YouTuber guy? uh I think I think I think should I tear is a something I ask a lot often and I don't think it's like a bad thing to ask, right? It's like is this of importance in my world that it brings any sort of value or I should be aware of to going. Yeah I Understand that most other human beings perceive that question to be pretty aggressively rude, right? and am I am I in the quest of their approval or do I have other goals that are a little bit better than that because their people is irrelevant. they can say I think the thing is okay now who's being the edge Lauren Okay you said I was being edgy earlier but I'm tired of this I found you know it's so annoying I'm so tired of it and it makes me jaded.

So yes, they can off licking me and then subscribe holy. anything else is annoying. Okay continue. um true.

um do you have perms to join that room in my Discord what do you have perms to join that room in my Discord Destiny's room? Yeah, off topic but Kai was released on bail 30 minutes ago I feel for him Okay, well I'm moving into there so I don't have to like restart and make like that's sweet I'm so good it's again it's kind of crazy foreign dude. it's annoys me. Oh okay, here you go. So this guy thinks you're a cuck piece of Mahler does.

wait I thought you meant he felt okay I think that he's poor. no I'm just kidding I am the tape and run as like ironically and they hate it so much it triggers when they hated so much and then I just didn't use it like whatever. Okay, all right, that's the way if we start: uh X Do you believe that like anyone has this position legitimately? Or do you kind of think at this point that it's all like virtue signaling stuff? It's it's in childhood signal I think that a 99. But like my angle is the I've always done this and I assume Destiny and everyone else kind of right.

like we've all done responses to stuff over the Internet yeah and I thought it was like crazy when I first saw I think it was Hassan was the first person I saw the did like MasterChef stuff and everything I think you mentioned that you've stopped doing that now. like with with I don't know how to put it like mainstream television shows and maybe movies. um and then simultaneously I mean people got me on this I tried to stream some movies. it didn't go too well.

Um, you don't understand better on how that works. I'm buffering my a little bit on and off and I try some things and some things worse than it doesn't but um. overall I don't I don't do it as I added like a other kinds of my own heart attacks the waters. Does that make sense? Uh, in your like perfect world, do you think you should be able to do it though? um um so sensitive topic Yes, but it depends what right and I think we're a little bit ahead of the industry because I think down the line I predict a certain change I'll talk about later if you want.

um and I think it's a bit too fast. but yeah, but it just depends what the selection is. section Okay, um, so like I assume you're similar with Destiny maybe and I'm not sure if Hassan is a position, but like it's it's partly to do with your positional copyright. like an IP no, no, the lock and suck it I I I honestly I understand I shouldn't say things like this right when it comes to these laws.

I need a lot of more flawed old defunct dog, right? and when I I don't I don't really use it as a mole Compass I think morality and the gallery are two different Um areas entirely and you will mix them together whenever if it's their narrative and sometimes they, they don't. and I think um, playing that little push and pull game is really cringe. Uh, that's my actual take I think that's totally fair. Let's stay fully away from uh, from the law, will stick strictly to morals, but uh, what I mean Then when I say is like a lot of people think morally speaking that we should have rights to our intellectual property right? Like the yes Morally Yeah.

So coming straight from that I think the whatever I create and whatever you guys create, whatever anyone creates, there should be a limit on before anyone can reuse it for their own purposes. Yeah, to you know, a crazy extent or to uh, smaller extents. And then of course we all have lines on where we consider it transformative. but I assume you're in favor of that at least to some degree.

Yeah, um, because like you wouldn't want people re-uploading everything you do uh without adding to it and making money off it. I Assume you have to be really careful when you ask especially big streamers that question because I'm pretty sure excuse even me I would never give a yeah, but there's scenarios where you would right? Like if they started getting more viewership than jewelry uploads, they're the only way where I would care about it would be is if I did like a podcast and somebody cut that particularly and they got it on YouTube before I got it from my stream YouTube that would be like one second. but other than that now even if people got more views than me, I would just consider it really good exposure. and that's the most important thing for me as a streamer's exposure.

So yeah, because if he gets ahead of me. overall, he does a good job and if he does a good job, why wouldn't I have it on my team instead, right? Um, better job I'm gonna hire him then. Well, what if they refuse? Um, if it refuse, it sucks. It never happened before because a lot of people that do that are fans of the content then.

so they just do it and it's more money for everybody else because we can, uh, convert everything together. There's no arguments against it. You would, uh, experience some form of benefit I wouldn't deny that. but like, if it was ultimately proven that they were still getting most of the money, you weren't especially on platforms you might not even be interested in.

You're just gonna let it sort of happen in the hopes that it will benefit you ultimately. Um, okay, that I don't think this, that's ever I've never encountered that of um. ecosystem, right? So I think something's happening. Hypotheticals don't are tough for them to find one of them in the real world, right? You like them.

Does it happen very often? It has happened to me before and I haven't seen it before, so it's kind of difficult to make an assumption or how on how that would be like right? You want to show me wait so it sounds like you're hyper Progressive on the idea of people being able to move content around, but that you want like an exclusive sort of even if it's a day, uh, access to for audiences to come to you first. Absolutely. whatever you make. Yeah, yeah, and you know what.

It's a good topic if you bring that up, right? Because people think that like streamers are really dumb about that, right? And we don't know about that. Um, it's actually worse for us somehow because we, it's all about light engagement for us, right? So things are in real time and sometimes, um, when things are live and very personal and aren't really meant to be shared except for Dixie I Wanted to be to be here for reasons um, that are like, um, for interactivity like polls and and convenient engagement. Um, it's gonna be bad to have like, how do you call that? Um, people react live because it's gonna. It's gonna really cannibalize not only the the viewer and analytics.

it's going to cannibalize the actual core experience and it'll damage the product. Which doesn't happen at all with videos, especially if you put a buffer in between the rules released and then reacted to and then uploaded them. So uh, if we then implemented that, what do you think the consequences would be sort of industry-wide or worldwide with media like if we were all if copyright only lasted one day. Whatever the person wants, because Mr Beast wants it to be immediate and so it's very difficult to find what people want as a whole as a as a medium I think it's kids by case.

Also, there's an angle that um, if we were to actually run that in like a worldwide set in, the Uh corporations would dominate because they would be able to find ways of basically absorbing all of the best content that's made and then the incentives to create said best content would start to lessen and lessen because people can't control their own engagement. Instead, it would all go to content absolutely and then we should go in those directions I think when these become a problem because then it becomes out of balance which I don't think Ambi has shown yet at all and I'm waiting for somebody to show me that it's it's a it's bad like I haven't seen it I don't think it would be out of balance yet because this is uh, very much on the lower levels. This is just some content creators that are more engaged with and then some of the ones at the top being able to snip from ones that are lower to Mid or ones that have given position at the top as well. Like this is the beginning I Think you you mentioned right, You assume that this is going to change as time goes on.

I Believe for the worse you believe for the better. Oh 100 100 wonder why? Because people enjoy it. People like it. It's a product, people consume it at mass.

and I think we owe it to ourselves to explore these options. and The Shining away as far as we can because of oh my. God the small guy might be losing money and I think it's a really stupid argument and we're losing a lot of value. We're losing on actual human enjoyment and people realize that once the money lines up with that, otherwise people didn't like, react, they wouldn't watch.

React well. Um, I Assume We all agree that there are plenty of things the world and people want that we consider to be worthwhile in terms of making illegal slash uh, disencouraging them. Give me an example. Any any like I would say I would start with extremes.

like maybe people want to watch. well maybe people want to watch two kids fight to death. It's like we can't have that. hey sorry every every time Desi talks uh or has it taken.

I I lose a hundred thousands of dollars actual black mold takes this guy man I'm canceled by smokers and then he opens his mouth anyway. um yeah, yeah, these are these. These are bad. Yeah, it is about it.

but I think these are bad because of the nature of it. like the root behind it is just like a an actual crime right? Um, because the Dmca right? Theoretically what you're doing is illegal I Don't think you still think would be wrong, right? Um I I think I think that um, some things just just aren't enforced and for a good reason, right? And it compared that to something that is massive in force and force at 100 rates and for the right reasons as well is pretty disingenuous of a pathway for an argument. So of course I would start to bring it down and be like. So we do agree, there are times when even if the audience desperately won it as a whole, we don't allow it to happen.

Yes, and it's like. so why do we allow something like what you might do with let's say a laminar video versus uh, something else and I will be like we do kind of allow in a good way for reactors uh or responders. However, people want to use the term to convert videos from whatever they were into something new. um, but that there's obviously going to be the was I correct in I Think you? you already said Actually, you're fine with a full re-upload because you would just either buy the channel out or uh, they're allowed to do it as long as it's like a week afterwards.

Um, okay so my take on that is kind of kind of complicated so it depends about the nature of the content is right that I think this is a big deal if if you're if I'm reacting to a story okay about about a child that becomes an adult and it's like it's like it's pathway through it right? or it's it's growth through life right? and I'm originated and I'm like, well I have to be very much transformed about this content I read about I don't want to hurt the guy who has the the copyright ownership that is I'm gonna go full cam for 10 minutes after the intro of the movie and then I will have a take about the story after it happened, right? and it's like, well, the whole thing is important right? I want to talk about the whole thing I want to show it with chat I want to I Wanna I wanna show the entire thing because every part is important right? the every part of the board. otherwise like it doesn't make sense like it's gonna be like okay I'm running into this at the beginning right? and it's like oh well I can't react because they're talking about something. so I cut the whole part out. It makes no sense at all.

like it's zero. Um, as much as that logic could be used for a lot of things, someone could extend it really far being like I need this 20 minutes of context before I can talk about the thing I want to talk about for one minute and then you know, go on from that like an hour ratio to five minutes or whatever. Um, whereas I would be like if you are unable to provide content beyond that limit, then it shouldn't be a video you respond to. You should just find someone that's better.

It's why it's why. I Don't upload the videos that I don't think um, that much I I Try them to turn my editors on the Fly Yeah, don't put this. don't do that one. Don't do this.

Don't do that because sometimes you it's only after the package. It's like it's live content. I'm not I'm not a I'm not a Visionary or a savannah I don't see in the future it's gonna be good or not I Just watch it and if it ends up being not very reactive. okay, don't don't upload it because it's whatever, right? But you're okay with doing it on stream because it's a different platform.

Uh, because I think people overall accepted more as an argument. All right. but I really wouldn't give a I it to me doesn't really matter, like it? Yeah, because to try and clean it up I start and stop at transformative. Transform it.

or don't as in transform it and you're fine or don't and don't do it at all. Yeah, rather than we sort of try it out on stream, bully and if it didn't work, oh well, we don't upload it to YouTube but we still benefit fully from the video on the stream. Benefit is fully I mean at that point I mean I'm gonna dance with you. Some videos are so bad my chat would rather watch me like actually go full cam and take a nap.

Okay, they actually been watching this that I watch sometimes right? Does that Does that make it any like does that like I don't think it's a very good woman. still be that's your responsibility, not the videos yeah, but didn't damage the video. Also at that point did it ruin them or them over in a way that like I'm doing that because I don't want to make my own time or something like that or like I feel like it's not. it's that I think it's not gonna be in bad faith if um, if you're saying like the video wasn't interesting enough unless chat got bored and I couldn't react much to it.

therefore I lost out. It's like well, that's still on you as an entertainer right? Yeah, The opposite argument because because I'm making that point answer like don't there's no point to be doing a 180 here on it because I can't prove the opposite. Are you saying that like I can't say that you still benefited? Yeah, yeah exactly. I I I Still think they were gonna get something out of it whether I liked it or not even though China got bored or not so make sense like so um, my argument would be that you passed over into like the term babysitting comes up right You passed it over to someone else and then they fail to entertain your audience and now you're saying it's their fault.

Oh never that I mean I can make that argument and be disingenuous about it and I do. Sometimes it just add with it. but um, um, like I don't I don't actually believe that. Okay, so then that's what I'm saying by you will always benefit because either you get all of the entertainment value from them or that they fail to entertain your audience and that you just move on like there's no, there's no negative, that's just neutral.

Yeah yeah, let's be honest. they got bored. They wouldn't watch it. Yeah, this is a positive for them, right? and I try to I try my best not to uh all the time to be like oh guys, this is dog and like yeah, um I like it.

you don't like it I'm gonna be ungrateful like that I think it's just mean or it's useless. You know? Uh, considering what you just said right that the if the video was boring, they're not gonna go seek it out. wouldn't your negative Also be the content creators original concrete is negative as well. Now they'll be thought of as a boring Creator No no because no because um I think everybody's audience is different and special in their own way and some things will line up personality wise.

but something I like it. and when I have fun Chad has a lot of fun I Love most of the time it's kind of the best of streaming, but nobody has fun, right? and um, that's improving time and time again. So I try to find things that I am actually interested in. It's a challenge today.

Overall: I think it reflects a lot on on the audience. If I like something, there's a good chance they might like it a lot, right? It happens very rarely. like Jubilee where I like to check, thinks it's dog and you know what's for that. um because I like it but um, things that actual interest or I'm focused on or I'll talk about and with passion they are usually on board with it.

Um, it's why that won't be the same thing for everybody else. uh, some of the things that has been uh, um, something that something that Azim will watch I'll watch and it'll kill my career forever because it's that bad day. But um, if I continue to watch that type of content at the same time, um It lines up with me because I don't enjoy that content either, right? So it's there's like a lineup there, right? Um I mean the obviously we need all the statistics on it I guess at that point to know for sure. but uh I would just assume that if it goes one way as in the praise of the video or the engagement with the video would cause people to think better of the creator that the reviews would happen as well.

Um, it really depends. Like it. like if I watch a a fighting game video lore of three hours about how um John from Tennessee has overcome uh Justin at Evo right I'm gonna dance with you like nobody gives a like a creator that actually likes the the type of game was very interested in it because he knows all the lore and his channels are more a bit more interested. It's like a win-win you know, otherwise it's not I don't think it.

uh really, it's yeah. that's my thing. Okay um so on transformative as an argument. Do you think because you've said that you would take it down if you were asked by the Creator Is that right 100 So why would I take it down? Yeah, why would you take it down? Don't you think you're in the right for having transformed it? Yeah, but I care but you were sorry.

but I care You care Yeah I care I care about your video I care about watching it I care about their content I care about them to some extensive uh yeah you can say that as much as benefit to me. but I generally care about about that video and about that that person um and they want to take me down I'll take it down I don't give a I don't need a video I want it. it wasn't needed different things. For instance, if uh Destiny was asked by Ben Shapiro to take down coverage of his videos and the only argument was I just want it down.

that's my preference. Would you do it? Destiny Daily Wire already Dmca The last thing I reacted okay yeah. If somebody asked me to remove a video almost every time I'm gonna lean into yes on that. The only exception would be if I feel like it's a very valid, very necessary critique or something and somebody's just trying to censor things off the internet, then I probably wouldn't But it's yeah.

Let's say we're gonna depend. Yeah, so bench rails are hard one because we're getting into the political. Let's say Ventura puts in a video saying that like we need to take away all trans rights in the United States and then I react to that video and then he's like can you take that down like I don't appreciate using that with my video I probably tell him to like kick rocks or something right and then we go Dmca fight or whatever. Yeah, um yeah.

but but if there was like a normal yeah like if I watch Like That lemon oh video and if my editor is and decides to throw that up on my YouTube channel which I shouldn't but if he did and then that guy emailed me, he's like could you take that down but yeah sorry like I'll ask you if I'm gonna use another video in the future of yours. Yeah yeah and by the way I I swear like if you want actual because you like always data and whatever out of all people the amount of data that I have and the combos of people and creators is exorbitant. So like you're not and I'm not the the um I'm not gonna get it like like over here on that like I will back it up if you want me to. So um, it's good that we've considered like if it was necessary content we would keep it up.

but what if you put effort in you, you consider yourself like let's say you've given commentary that doubled the video in size. you've checked out like actual statistics to support or to cry. Whatever they say in the video, you actually put some good work into it. but they said I still want it down I put it down my my job is Child's Play streaming is a d gen bottom of the barrel human behavior right when I like a video and I do it for fun and I enjoy it right I think the video was good I don't give a if if I think it's good or not I think it down because I will find something to do any day of the week any day of the day.

I will continue doing that and provide that because there's a surprise. There's difference between a golden goose and a golden golden egg. you know, like it. um, referring to your uh workers DJ and bomb of the Barrel like I don't I don't I was about to like defend you on your behalf and say well, it's not worthless Oh no it is.

it is No. I I Streams and live content are literally second monitor exclusive things and they will always remain that for the most part it it absolutely is. Anybody who thinks that it's not is stupid because they're comparing it to produced content at 100 production and it's an uphill battle argument to make. It's stupid to make it, they don't need to try it.

But if you feel that way, then do you understand why people are as angry as they are? Um, no. because saddle the people that are angry. Nobody watches their then okay, um I Guess what I'm trying to say is that you already consider the format to be bottom of the barrel. They are saying that something like lamino is top of the cream of the crop and then you put out your video.

The main value comes from Lemino's videos. You guys are both failing. Now you guys are both failing it. You missed.

Uh, an important component. The action of streaming is about the barrel dog, right? The product as a full-fledged product is actually ahead of the curve. The the chat experience, the sense of community, the sense of camaraderie, and uh, uh, the social aspects of that are are severely misunderstood. and they're very, very valuable, right? And the whole combo of the of the stream? The China Everything.

The product itself is very very very very good. but the behavior of the human behind it is degenerate. Yes, Okay, so uh yeah. uh.

So in the world that let's say, Laminate puts the video out and then a hundred thousand streamers all do their reactions and they all upload. I Assume we all agree that the audiences are not going to spread equally to all of them. Instead, it will be people like you and, uh, Asthma Gold Etc You know the established? Yeah, yeah, Somewhere you're going with this: Uh, I Understand, Uh, yes. streaming it videos anything on the internet of other media is very top heavy and very much capitalistic in that and most arguments made uh, against that are usually like actual brain dead commandies.

I'm just gonna give it a stacker. so I think I try to approach it that way I Think you're gonna get crushed, but go ahead I'm not. Honestly, I'm I'm trying to figure out a lot of this with understanding your mindset on it as well. Yeah, um, considering all of what what's been said, like, could we not see a future where it will only benefit the people who are established already? If we all agreed that you were right on this and we all felt streamers? Yeah, but imagine Phantoms of YouTube right? because the performance will continue to perform as long as it makes good videos.

Well as we I'm assuming you guys know about like uh, what Jax films has been doing with um XX Sniper Wolf I forget the full name or how the name is said, but that uh, she'll be reacting and getting millions and millions of views from tick tocks that are all grabbed from people who have as low as like 100 views. Yeah than they never found. Okay, would you say that that is unacceptable? No. um I couldn't care.

These guys are taking off, haven't taken off, will not take off, and have no ways of doing so. Um, unless they will and that whatever she's doing isn't affecting that in any way. That's negative. If anything is a positive, flat out, are you saying that the market would have defined whether or not they were worthwhile? Yeah, okay, um.

destiny. What do you think about that? You could laugh if you want. I'm right. sure because often amazing they're gonna keep posting and she's gonna stop reacting it and they won't make it because their content sucks.

Their is garbage. Yeah, I mean he's probably right, but I mean I wouldn't say it that way. You think he's right. The market.

No, no, he doesn't think I'm like he knows I'm right. There's a massive difference. Here's this is my if I was to argue this which I won't because it's such an Optics L and I'll let Xqc go eat all those optic cells. Um, what I would say is that like people are just mad at React Content because streamers are seen traditionally as lazy compared to people who put a lot of like preparative work into their content.

Um, and the reality is is that like all React content does, is it makes some streamers richer and it makes a lot of audiences happy because they can view something really, just like a ton of upsides with probably no downside. The only downside is a perceived or illusory loss that the original content creator feels absolutely well. What do you mean where I'm sorry, What did you ask? I'm asking about the fact that those Tick Tock creators are all getting like zero views. Meanwhile, Sniper Wolf gets all of them by reacting to all their content, that that's happening because them on their own would never get any engagement because they're not good enough.

Do you think that's fair? Yes, yeah. I don't know I don't think they would I don't think that somebody watching Sniperwolf's channel if she wasn't uploading those I don't know if they would be on Tick Tock Discovering those low view tick tocks? That's not. That's not the point either. Well, obviously my conclusion would be that they may be found someday, but for now they're not and instead they're just gonna get eaten by her.

She can take advantage then then, but there's another situation where it's just her gaining and then her audience gaining. But if we ax out her games and the audience's games, that's it. We've just deleted Like what is the correction then we can have her promote them right? Okay, okay, wait wait no. I've I've been taken dumb.

The here's the actual thing. If you want to be a Creator anyone should pop up. You create right In a lot of ways. Maybe the first thing that they'll make won't have that effect, right? but the Boost that they're gonna get when they make another video will pop off if you want to make one video and it could have went hard and you say, well in another world it would have been hard and it would have been viral.

Whatever. Yeah, I mean yeah, you could make me right, but like it is, that is that what you are a seven a seven second Tick Tock Forever and you are one creation forever. The implication is of course that they create a whole library of strong content that she just gets to pick and choose whichever one she wants to react to. like.

but we're not I assume conceding that she's the one that makes the videos valuable by reacting to them because you said like, they're never gonna pop off. It's like so why does she pop off I assume you guys have seen a reactions. they're terrible like she goes oh my God no no see, you fell for it man. I I know I as an argumentator or a bit debater at high hopes for you and you just fell down your face I I'm now I'm sad you made me sad now because now you don't view it as good or uh, you don't see its value.

Therefore, everybody nobody sees that. they know everybody has no value right? No people love it. I Already answered why people are there? Why it's because of the tick tock, they're interested in the actual content. That's no, just stop.

Go ahead. Tick Tock Wasn't this successful one? I Don't know what she was stealing before I Only Knows No Name Making assumptions. She always sold on it I Don't know. Yeah, okay you are de facto making assumptions of your argument is what? Yes, yes you are.

Yes you are no I said I don't know where how she got to where she was before she started but it has value but you would be that has value. Sure I don't know what I have no contact in your opinion. If I did a terrible or not it's irrelevant because the stats and if they should always other people is enough on its own. I have no idea what point you're trying to make Oh my God I Had no idea what you are trying to do I think you want to get any views? Oh my God come on bro, you don't believe that.

No, No. So I'm I'm taking what you told me. which is that these tick tockers, they'll never be able to work on their own. If you're doing, it is what's giving it value.

Yes, I'm saying she doesn't add any value. The videos themselves, what people are interested in enjoying, she's just collecting them and then you said well where did she get her theme from before the tick tocks and I said I don't know Thank you that the opinion uh on that is irrelevant is genuinely irrelevant. Okay, so let me let me break it down. Um I think under playing it.

The hybrid combination of multiple factors such as her watching it, her being who she is and her lore behind her like I think plays a massive role of not the entire role behind the success of the video regardless of how good Tick Tock is I have I've seen tick tocks that have zero views and will never get any news right and I'm just really dumb and I don't even get the joke because I speak friendship and chat will like the reaction because I have a funny reaction but they don't even understand why it's valuable or what is it. Oh it's good because the combo of the both, they enjoy it. It has value whether you perceive as valuable or not is irrelevant. Um, but what was there I'm not sure what I'm responding to that.

Your perception on the Y is doing good is pretty relevant. Um, if you're trying to discredit like oh well, um, on their own, they wouldn't even do good I mean what makes her well I don't know what my perception and why they're doing good is momentum that they've already got I don't know I'm not even I wouldn't be able to tell you how Destiny started his momentum because I wasn't there. Neither can I say that for you all I know is something it might have been to do with OverWatch I don't know. In any case, the the the way you can maintain momentum in an easy way is of course continuing to do whatever it is.

but to also use these videos they're like placing tracks down for your train. They're easy and I think that's unethical. Oh I have an argument because molding because of career choice and you could be making more money with less effort. So you're you're mauled that people are making money and you're not Uh, based on the fact that how much effort you have to put in on you in your in your work field or anything I don't mind if you or Destiny or anyone else makes a huge career from reacting to videos.

if you're transforming them, that's totally fine with me if you steal them, that's where we have a problem. Well, I because what he said about Sniper SS wolf is actually super true. Oh no I really couldn't believe it when you made that comment I'm like, oh, he's right at the end of the day. can you say which comment in particular? Just so everybody comes.

the most recent one where you said, basically sniper, We all criticize her way of doing stuff and everyone's making her the poster child at the moment. But the fact is, the audience sees a tremendous amount of value of watching it with her because they come for her reactions as well. and for them, it's important to watch it. They wouldn't want to watch a lot of these stuff without her being there.

So even though it may not seem transformative to a lot of you guys and a lot of the folks criticizing her, the truth is for the audience, it is transformative in that they would not be consuming the content any way, shape or form if it wasn't for her. I Don't buy that for seconds. they will probably watch other people react to it. They would have to watch it on their own if they caught it.

if that was that fat. flat out I'm a nobody and I probably didn't think of value I'm only here because I made these choice in these combos actually worked out them. that's it. Sure if if, um, if that were true, then why would people stay even if you're not commenting at all.

What? Uh, the community? Maybe for the community? Yeah, that's a different argument. I'm talking you said. Sniper Wolf I said the package thing. It could be comments.

It could be it could be for the lore the the sense that everybody knows. oh my. God Everybody has a reason why. they watch right.

People downplay the the lore of stuff. People go in the comments and they they enjoy interact with other people that saw as many videos as her. They make comparisons to her old videos and so they did in the past or jokes she made a long time ago right? and they enjoy her and her content. It's on the front page.

There's another reason why people watch something. There's so many of them and a lot of them are social aspects and they're part of the product and diminishing the whole product because normally with one part or another are stupid. My product is dog times because of me. I Don't think it starts because of what's on screen or or what's happening Enchanted Right when things work, things work in Tandem and in certain percentages or ratios to make a full-fledged good project that is desirable.

Okay, um, do you think that if uh, Sniper Wolf stopped uploading this dude, you only go somewhere else. Don't know if Sniperwolf stopped uploading completely. Do you think the viewers from here would, uh, disappear or go somewhere else? They would go. They would split the internet.

Nobody cares about you. Zero Nobody has loyalty. They're only loyal to the content. uh, quality that you put out and you are 100 um, replaceable and you will be replaced.

The view is that you should stop uploading. We'll go to other videos entirely. Oh, we'll go to other things and the only reason we go to The Tick Tock With eight years the guy had and now he's gonna get none next time. That argument is stupid.

But yes, so I agree they would go in other places. They would likely fill other communities who would do and react to different things as well and that would be fine with me if they transform the content. If they're not, then I'm less fine with it. Like I said, it's just a matter of how you're building.

How do you know that? Yeah, I know what you just said a statement. But like, how do you know that they would just go to a different community and start watching other content? You actually don't know that? How do I know that they would continue to watch YouTube as opposed to most of it will spread out mind out to The Tick Tock that she was watching it on the same platform and and it it spreads out. Here's a good example. Look at Twitch's stats when I left Twitch and went to kick him while I'm leaving, the stats are relatively the same rapidly because why I think I I real quick I Think that it's going to depend on the type of streamer and the type of community they have.

so like for not like for my content if I was wiped off the face of the Earth if I had to guess I'd say probably like 50 to 40 of my fans would go and watch other stuff I think a lot of them would just stop watching content. Um but if you were watching somebody, let's say you were part of like Otk. Maybe yeah, like like S-band Let's say s fan gets wiped off because he's he does collage with so many other people maybe like 80 to 90 of his audience would go to other Otk members right? I Think it depends on the type of stream you're watching, the type of community they have and how about in you are to their content. but I I don't think it's zero sum where when you destroy a streamer, all 100 of the audience disperses to other content I think some of it will be lost I think viewer hours will go down overall and some people just stop engaging with content.

Yeah, you'd be surprised how many people just watch one Creator regularly and they're like, yes, watch anything else like the video. So uh, didn't you make a point about how you're almost interchangeable with So many other people? Yeah, yeah. I am yeah. so I I believe the majority of the viewers then would definitely disperse to other creators.

I Don't see why we wouldn't assume that's true. Wait, the the majority? Yeah, we'll watch something else. In terms of investing, people are maybe older. Maybe they only tune into YouTube as as their radio, right? They're they're like radio enjoyers right and watches.

There's a radio and and they don't really care about the radio itself. But again, because Destiny's on it right? and they'll watch that. And I think as as they're drawing as you're growing up and as you get older, right? I'm the percentage of people that are gonna have to watch other stuff will diminish um greatly. Um, yeah.

by by a multitude I would assume I think it's a good assumption to make it I don't think it's a bad assumption. Um, yeah. so the industry as I understand it then will be the ones with the highest momentum will be able to get away with the best of taking other people's content. Yeah, absolutely that.

That is precisely where my issue is. Okay, Well, I don't care. You don't have to care. That's totally fine.

But do you agree that, uh, you've you've created non-transformative reactions 100 Yeah, okay, that's fine. We've agreed. So you surrendered. then I'm confused.

So that's my moral issue. You don't agree with me because we have different morals. Oh okay, that's That's right. Yeah, um yeah.

I think you'll never I think as as the future goes forward, you're gonna. You're gonna have that more and more right? But overall, you're gonna get a higher value entirely is when more ways to enjoy something than just one. So overall, it's like we're getting new new sets of cars. We're getting motorcycles.

Now we're getting hoverboards right? As you're trying to say, Well, Well well, well. um. I Really want them to only enjoy the Corolla They cannot enjoy anything there. It has to be the Corolla right? It just has to be as right.

And I think that argument is diminutive in progression for um, for products. Yeah, I Don't see any technological updates gonna happen within my lifetime that will make me think that stealing content is fine, like not transforming it. Wait, wait, why is the fact that he is replaceable, not making transport? I don't understand the weakness. So no, all the elite I was making from him saying he's transformative is that viewers would move to other places with the same sort of Vibes What does that change? I'm smart and there was an argument I'm rolling this.

What the you talking about him? Okay, yeah, why I have pushed him here, but it didn't work it Okay, why is the fact that he's replaceable? Okay, the fact that it's transformative. What does that matter that's not got anything to do with my transformative argument I'm talking about where the audiences go if he says he's replaceable I Believe the audiences will move to other places Destiny's correct and a lot of people who view him passionately like there's no other Destiny online. Same for a lot of creators. If Laminos stop making videos, it's not like all of Laminar's videos move to the next lamino.

there isn't No, there is no Lex that is correct and then then things are gonna have a second. uh, life in the door, watch other stuff and sometimes in more in similarity to the most garden. and I think that's that's okay I don't mess up onto that. Yeah, so that's what that was all establishing that.

So I figured that was an older argument. The new one is just about whether or not they transform X you see, doesn't mind if he is transforming it or not. I Do no? I mean I I just don't agree and and a lot of times if they don't like I'm 100 I'll take the video down a little bit. oh my.

God I Can't believe this by trying to defend Sniper I'm definitely excuse you at the same time. but I still I Don't care whether Xqc is transformative or not, the fact is that anytime he watches anything on his stream, his community is live stream chat. Whether he talks or not, it doesn't even matter. His little reactions of his face make it transformative I'm not, true.

Yeah, actually true. So transformative means something. When we say transformative, we're talking about that four Factor test for fair use that the United States has as part of their copyright. I Write law, right? That's what transformative means now.

Transformative and something is so different that people will watch it for a particular reason. Those are technically two different things. How do you establish that? you would establish it by looking at the four-factor test for fair use? That's how you determine if something is transformative in your eyes. Hold on.

I'm just saying. you got to be clear with your terms when we talk about fair use or we talk about transformative. What we're really using are legal definitions there. if you want to use like a casual definition, well I would say don't because you're using the same word as the legal one which makes it really confusing I Don't think people care what the legality I Understand I Understand I Understand We're using transformative.

We're trying to say as you say that like the work itself is changing to a degree that has value. I Understand I Understand I understand. But I'm just saying that you're using the same word. It would be like saying that like yesterday John did something illegal and you're like, what did he do He lied to me, It's like, well, he didn't do okay, but it's illegal.

It's wrong. He did something illegal This, It's not illegal, right? So I'm just saying if you're going to use the legal term of transformative, it's really confusing of reducing that a casual way. But something that I said a few days ago is correct. What you guys are saying now is that for most people, you're you guys are actually close.

But there's even one step further. They actually don't even care about Xqc's reactions. A lot of the quote-unquote I'm using this in the Casual non-legal sense. like you guys using transformative part really just comes from watching something with a community.

Yeah, people can talk about. these are added things that you don't really compute and it's very hard to quantify, but they're very much relevant to the final full-fledged product, which is a massive part of everything. And you know what? Sometimes I'm a Santa my chair is more entertaining than some of their content. Dead ass.

The fact that the chat is watching. they're saying it. it's just saying yo. We'll do it.

Mr chairs watching the video. That's value to people. That's funny I don't even it and then that's true. But that doesn't But that doesn't pass the transformative test.

Not the legal, not the legal, not the legal kind. Yes, most likely started. He said he didn't care about the legal fortune and we're really just talking about the morale time. That could be wrong.

Yeah, yeah, it would be like saying so. Something that some apartment complexes used to do is sometimes people would take a projector or or actually, we can do this. Um, sometimes bars will show sports games right? And there's a transformative aspect to going to a bar and watching a sports game with a whole bunch of other people. That's like a real That's more transformative probably than being in a stream.

Chat right? Because you've got a bunch of people around you. you're all screaming, you're having fun or whatever. However, my understanding is that those establishments still legally need to purchase a special license to show those things. You can't just buy one HBO ticket to a fight and then show that in a bar.

You've got to buy a special license for that because you're showing it to a wide variety of people as part of an establishment, right? That's I'm just I'm not disagreeing with you guys are saying I'm just saying. That's like the legal part is a little. There's a distinction between the legal part of just Transformer here versus just like why somebody would watch something I think we all agree I think which really sucks because these laws are old as and they are defunct and stupid. Um, and it should be that way.

I Think that's that's probably what Ethan's gonna try to go through for it. first is how wrong you're on the law and then you'll move to morals and you'll probably have a better standing. But yeah, I mean you'll give all the way because he lost his entire career or his entire future in terms of money to it Right to that? The variation is more than like I'm going around the pot making fun of it when he lost a lot for it, right? Obviously the legal aspect of Android in terms of how the news story unfolded I Think people were on his side because they really felt like what he was doing. this was transformative and that it changed them.

They didn't care about the legal aspect of it. When they were thinking about that, they said no. What you did really change the work in the way that I do it. It's right, not right.

And so I think what? I'm well I Guess what I'm getting at is that when I'm looking at Xqc or even sniper SS wolf I feel like both of them do enough. where for the audience? The Experience wouldn't be the same I have a question if I uploaded all of your videos and my community reacted to it and I wasn't there, would you be okay with that? I would Oh man. Okay, hold on. Abba has to say no.

he would not be okay. He does have to say no because I know him a little bit. well. hold on because he literally on my stream like three days ago DMC just pearly things for reality.

it's a paid actor because Peter's gonna come in and lose an argument on my behalf even though I'm okay with it and now I have to cover for him. Hell no Clear X you're in the clear for now. that's gonna have to suffer. No I don't have to suffer anything.

But anyways, all this to say. um I would have an issue because of how I've always felt about it. Now if you ask me if I feel as transformative three days ago I probably would have said no but I've honestly been a little bit uh, changed my mind tonight by the conversation I've heard I'm really shocked and this never happened. My ex actually like changed my mind on this.

oh okay, um see I have a concept in my chat um called Mr chair if I'm gone and I watch a video and I I leave uh Mr chair watch this video for me and chat loves Mr chair more than like they like me Chad hates me, they love Mr chair. okay and for them that has value and I think that that is can't be understated. All right? Um so oh, but just to clarify, you'd be okay with me doing it I think I probably still feel some type of way on the inside but I think if like you know why because it's some insecurities, some some some I think everybody has some insecurities. however we're going to project those is all up to you.

but I think that people shouldn't get values of arguments because they come from insecurities. Uh, that some of these guys just to clarify because like that scenario is kind of a step just further than what we were talking about when we first started. Next, you said you'd uh, offered to buy the channels out right if they did that. oh if they're if they're if they, if they do what I do, but better and they they've been on the algorithm I will add them to okay I will revise the workload and we're gonna get a clip guy.

and now yeah yeah, my editor is good enough and he does all of it. Yeah, he actually he learned how to do the rat clip The Joint clip the post clip the fast flipping. He knows all the strats but if he's if he gets bad enough at it and it's not good anymore, we get rolled up oh higher. The next guy that does better.

No yeah, fair enough. but um, obviously what I was bringing up is ABBA I was expecting to leave me alone, not try to buy me out. let me make my money. Uh yeah.

I mean I was not gonna buy you out. but I was even around here I would say this: I Think that most people when we're talking about the morality of the issue, their idea of what is transformative is going to be fairly subjective, but for the audiences watching the content, they would feel like it's extremely transformative for them. and so I would ask you how do you make the moral argument where you can feel like this is something that should be a little bit more expanded like more people should follow I'm curious like how do you even Define that line really on a moral basis You're asking me like how I would consider where's the line for non-transformative transformative? Yes, well, what is a lie Uh so I wouldn't ask I'd probably model it after the the full point thing, but like one of those I think includes like the amount of time which I'm not in favor of. So for example, if it said like, you need to have a maximum of 10 of the original content in yours, I'd be like no, I don't I don't think that should necessarily be true if you respond fully to 100 of it in detail, it shouldn't be that like, well now they they own it because you've done that obviously.

Uh, I'm personally invested in that since I do like full breakdowns of every scene in a movie sort of thing. Um, the main thing I think is to change like the full experience of watching the original like what's you can't If I was to review a movie that you can't watch my video and have the experience of watching the movie like it's a completely different thing and it's on different markets for different uh purposes. That's like one of the primary issues. Too much of my work is in there for it to be considered.

Not my wish, it was crazy. He said that future in your lifetime wouldn't change as much as you think. whatever the would you make that argument. Actually, it's crazy that corporate are the most scared about this and they really don't want that.

uh uh, all that right? Yeah, they're exploring watch party options which is a massively in my in my argument that you're watching movies together as like watch parties. That's a that is a massive advancement that even corporates value in it. So whatever you