Pro-Vaccine with anti-vaccine should your kids get vaccinated. I guess we could give it a try. My daughter was a victim and she's being punished. Okay, jack yeah.

We brought pro-vaxxers and interactions together to speak. A dialogue about the differences in similarities sounds like a good video guys. This is that's you guys guys. That's awesome.

That sounds like a reasonable take hi. My name is marissa gold. I am a parent. I have two girls, 10 and 13 and i'm also a parenting expert with my own parenting company intuit parenting.

My name is david epstein and i'm a pediatric intensive care physician, i'm gary schliffer, i'm an internal medicine physician, i'm bob sears, i'm a pediatrician. I guess my greatest passion is just to help encourage a full, complete informed consent for two years. Oh so marisa by trade. I and i would consider myself an informed consent advocate.

I just want to make sure this conversation can be open for people and continue to inform people and to listen to everyone understand why we each come to our opinion on this okay. The first statement is, i am vaccinated, hey buddy, i raise everybody because so i actually wasn't fully vaccinated. Interestingly, i grew up with two parents that were into alternative medicine, so i was not vaccinated as a child, but, as i got older, i vaccinated myself well, i was vaccinated as a child, but my last vaccine was about 15 years ago, when i returned to college And i had a severe reaction and that i became arthritic in my hands, went to many many doctors and nobody knew what was going on and why it was happening and just shrugged like it doesn't make sense. You're too young to have arthritis, and it wasn't until having kids and sort of digging into my own research for them.

A lot of answers started coming up and i think it's unfortunate that a lot of it is overlooked for me and i'll continue to get vaccinated regardless of of the risks, because i've seen too many things on the other side, i've seen kids, you know come into The icu and die from being getting the flu. I've always felt like the the risks uh are far outweighed by the benefits of of getting the protection. Chad. What's really cool is this chat is because of the science and interesting, interesting and very complex topics that takes a lot of time in education.

Uh, like schooling and books. What's really fun about technology is that you don't have to do your own research. Some people are, i'm not getting not getting vaccinations their job in dangerous researcher. I will acknowledge, of course, this initiation.

I know vaccines work. I know they give you protection, they vary greatly in what that protection. Is it's not like 100 magical shield over you completely, but i do acknowledge. There are some vaccines, like the measles vaccine and the chickenpox vaccine, that, honestly, if you don't get those vaccines yeah, you do risk catching the disease and passing it to others.

It's such a complicated topic, vaccines and you're, starting to get micro with each individual vaccine and definitely the question is i'm talking about the big picture and i think yeah. If you get micro, probably some of these vaccines, i think when you're giving kids medication you have to get micro about it. I don't think it's doing your kids any service. To just say, vaccines are all made the same and they're all safe and healthy and good for you that everybody's benefiting from it because that's false, but we study them before we release them to the public.

We study them, so we do know they're safe. That's the thing is we safe-ish and safe, you know being an intensivist, i see the worst, the worst and so seeing the other side of kids who don't get vaccinated. I saw a kid walk in with meningococcemia, which i haven't seen in decades. He had all four limbs cut off, they had to be amputated because it was all dead tissue.

You forget how bad things were before we had vaccines, that that is not an anecdote, that it is an anecdote, but it isn't meant to push an anecdotal argument. I didn't step forward for that, because i don't like the assumption that if a child is unvaccinated, somehow they are of risk to everyone and also knowing that vaccinated individuals can also be carrying and spreading diseases. I think it's simple guys. It's an anecdote to remind you of a time, and that example is the argument.

The the example is back in the days how it was when people were dying on this when people were dying in masses from this garbage. Trying to give you a reminder of what that. What that time was by using an example which is an anecdote. But the argument isn't anecdotal, very polarizing to separate the two as if, if you're vaccinated, you're totally fine you're, not risking anybody anything unvaccinated children, don't just have diseases hanging out in their bodies waiting to unload.

At any moment, anybody could be spreading diseases, especially things like polio and pertussis that are not completely covered by the vaccine. I do anything to keep my child safe. Oh my god. I agree.

I don't have kids, but when i think about it you know the idea with vaccines is you're protecting brain dead. All of us you're protecting the group. You know there's this idea of herd immunity, and so i think that's why it's really important to talk about, because this is an issue that doesn't just affect you. It affects everyone around you, because there's people that aren't vaccinated that are sick or have immune issues or they're too young to get a vaccine and they count on herd immunity.

I think most people too, like i started out, vaccinating my daughter because i believe all the same things. I think it was anti-vaxxer, but you said it wasn't until she had a reaction and several reactions that i actually had to look at it differently. Where i i realized by continuing vaccinating for her, that actually would hurt her, and yet everyone wants me to do it for the population as if i'm supposed to continue to sacrifice my child for everyone else. That's not works, lady exemptions for for vaccines.

If your child has a reaction and then there's so there's concern, i think that's valid, but i think a larger population is using other justifications to not get the vaccine guys. Nobody is guilting her into asking her child to be vaccinated, so they can carry the population. That's what herbie is for it carries everybody if you're the one in in a hundred thousand one in the million who can't get to her immediately. It's still it's.

It's still standing like a number of families. It doesn't disappear because it isn't bad able to opt out of vaccines because they feel they are just not willing to risk the side effects, but the side effects are the side. Effects are like one in a million one and two million, whereas the side effects from the diseases. When i see all these outbreaks and things like that, i'm gon na choose vaccines every time and that's, i think, right, there's the disservice to this conversation, analysis and what's unfortunate, is how downplayed those risks are.

I only started investigating vaccines because i ended up with a kid with an autoimmune disorder. So what does that mean? And instead of finding answers, i found more questions. The one in a million is not a real number dude. How the are you against this actual anti-vaccine? Chatter and you're saying it dude you're brainwashed.

What happens when polio comes back? What happens when your family is in an iron lung? You know what that is, and i don't know some big ass tank, where you have to be in the tank all date to be able to get to get the pressure or whatever to breathe when you're their families the same thing as a cylinder. You did you. Oh, maybe i was wrong, shut up, what's wrong with you, man and so the more that that is put out. So people think that no it's not not when you're talking about the different kind of reaction.

How am i fear-mongering it? What the i don't have to fear monger you. That was the thing it's why we have the history. So we have books where we have his i'm, not fear-mongering you. It already happened.

Man, i think the number you're referring to is anaphylactic shock. That anaphylactic shock is, of course, extremely rare, whereas you, when you look at seizures from the mmr vaccine, are one in 3 000.. But again this creates fear. Well, we worry that you that those on your side, kind of downplay those so my daughter had seizures seizures for most people are considered kind of a big deal.

You know when it happens to you that that downplayed element of well that's not anaphylactic shock. It's just a seizure, it is just a seizure, but seizures can be dangerous. I don't think it's an idea of downplay. I think it comes back to what we're saying with the risk benefit analysis, and i think the data is very clear that the benefits of giving vaccines by far outweigh the risks.

So i don't think it's a question of downplaying the risks they're there, but we also know that children were dying and now they're not and yes, they're side effects but they're not as bad as what we had before vaccines. True any kind of arguments, i don't always trust my doctor's opinion. You should never did what you have to always trust anytime, anyone, whether it's a teacher, a friend, something i read online, my mom, you know my the doctor anytime. Anyone tells me, oh, you, should do this guys.

Sometimes your doctor is wrong when it comes down to very complicated stuff. Sometimes you're gon na have a second opinion. It's fine, especially if it has to do with their health. I'm going to do research and it's.

I would be careful about saying it's that i don't trust my doctor, but that has that trust has been developed over time, and so i would say in the early years when my children were very young when they would say this is what we recommend. Yes, of course, there were times where i got a second opinion or did the research on my own and ask the questions, and i think that as parents we have to do that. Well, it's hard to trust someone who sees your child for 10 minutes twice a year in the end parents know their children best and that little office visit where your pediatrician looks at your child. He does not know your child the way you know your child.

So it's really hard for whatever recommendation he's making to be really based and individualized for your kid. So if you were to come to your doctor and say wait so if your kid comes in and they do a test on their underarm for for allergies and they get as extreme allergies to divine peanuts say no, no! No! No! No! I know eric eric eats his almonds and his peanuts every day, and i know better: hey my child's acting differently after this. This well visit appointment, something's wrong. You want them to trust that you have an established relationship and listen to you and hear you and understand that as a mother, just because you don't have the dr in front of your name, it doesn't make your opinion somehow less valuable yeah.

I mean, i think, like anyone, doctors are fallible. Yes, it does the thing and i think it's very important like you're. Yes, i don't think to have a really strong doctor-patient relationship. I think that's really hard in today's 10-minute appointment age.

You know makes it really difficult, but like as a young doctor, i think there's a lot of distrust when it comes to physician recommendations. It sucks, because you know you spend decades training and learning, and your heart is in this place where you want to like. Be of service to people and then you're not trusted, but you know to answer the question you shouldn't just blindly trust anyone's opinion. Your doctor or anyone chat.

Imagine check, as you spend your entire life: okay, okay, okay, getting getting getting a bunch of uh debt from from school, 15 years in school, residency, residential, the whole wazoo. To be a doctor, you finally show up you put your put your suit on open up. Your thing go sit down, but somebody get my first client and this witch shows up and she starts arguing that your your opinion is dog. I trust my physicians.

My daughter has epilepsy, and in march she was also diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis. I went to the rheumatologist and the rheumatologist said i'm going to put her on methotrexate and i looked at her. I'm like methotrexate. That's a chemotherapy camera therapeutic agent that you know, kids with cancer, get and she's like yes, but we use it in a low dose and it doesn't cause harmful side effects.

You have to trust me. I said okay and i trusted her, and i am so glad that i did before all this happened. She was a competitive gymnast and she used to walk up and down the stairs like she was 90 years old. She couldn't hold a pencil in her hand.

Now, she's back on the bars back on the on the beam doing things which my wife and i never thought that she would do again. So yes, do i trust my physicians? Yes, do i question them? Yes, i will say: look: can we do this, for her? Can we do this instead and yes, you know i. I can appreciate what you guys have said. As far as people hearing you and i think that's the biggest problem in medicine is that time is short, clinicians aren't listening, and i think that, as as a pediatrician, you know one of the most important jobs that we have is to listen to parents, and i Think that if any pediatrician isn't doing that they're not doing their job smart, there is too much hostility between the two sides.

There should be i'm going to be based and just say: there's there should be just because by being a dumb you're endangering me and everybody else being by being a and if too many dumb multiply and people become dumb, we would die. I want us to be able to have relevant and educated conversations, and i think at the core of this conversation is what is at the core of humanity and being a parent, which is that we all want to do right by our children. And we want to lead happy healthy and productive lives yeah. I have no doubts in my mind, this isn't about cool, but it's like this.

This is about vexing as a whole. This is one percent dead because one person people died in copenhagen. No it's just about how i've come to my decision making on my subject, which has been tedious and thorough, to say the least. I did not expect to go down this path in my life, but i have people who won't be friends with me who i've had death threats on social media.

I might not even be able to send my kids to school legislation changes because of the way. I think it's just it's insane to me how hostile this has become, and it's not doing a service to research and science moving forward and just the overall dialogues we have in our culture or whatever the subject. What i think is lacking in this debate or conversation is really compassion from the pro-vac side or pro-mandate side. I'll say the people who refuse to acknowledge that vaccine reactions are happening or that the things that happened to my daughter were connected, because maybe it was just a coincidence and i just needed something to pin it on.

You are socially isolated. You can be isolated by your family, isolated by the medical community community, isolated by society as a whole, because they assume you're, unintelligent, uneducated and irrational. I wish there was just more fat. No, we don't want to make something difficult.

We just want to be acknowledged. My daughter was a victim and she's being punished. When i signed up for this, it was a little bit of trepidation. I mean the log isn't working because you do hear things in the media.

You know about the people who are anti-vaccine and the way they respond to physicians, and it is a little bit scary. You know as physicians, we care about people there's compassion on on the medical community side. We wouldn't do this if we, if we didn't care, but again, you know, i do have compassion for the families that have gone through issues with you know, with vaccines and i've. I have a great deal of compassion for the families that have children die from preventable diseases.

There shouldn't be any hostility, there should be discussion, i mean we can always question things, that's how we evolve. That's how we get better. If we didn't question anything we'd be still in the dark ages, they think that an adverse reaction is something that people try to try to hide dull, dude uh. I i maybe i'm wrong, but i feel the same thing as if, let's say you, you, you get a get: a a a a product to eat and yo.

What up and it's bad is that looking for things to make better, so it doesn't happen. Yo tv's not working, oh, can you put the fire log or maybe even some fishies yeah. Thank you! No okay, 10 hour fishies. No, but the the youtube isn't working.

I think the internet isn't working okay. Tonight.