Thank you Oh True Chairman Rogers and ranking member Pallone Foreign testifying here today. Your good news, you're halfway through with me. As screen time increases, so do inherent risks. And with the proliferation and popularity of new social media platforms, so does the potential reach of dangerous, provocative, and often harmful content.

Wait, somebody wrote that word my fear The Abuse as a representative from the state of Michigan I can speak from experience on how social media has been used to Target members of the Michigan delegation including Apollo to kidnap our governor and how it can be weaponized to perpetuate harms towards individuals and communities. and you saw firsthand how it targeted the chair of this committee. Today, many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle have raised legitimate concerns about protecting Children online misinformation and securing our data. Concerns that I share and has been said by many of my colleagues are bipartisanly shared: I Think of many ways: these Myriad of issues highlight the need for comprehensive data privacy legislation that would ensure the safety and integrity of every American's data.

Let's put her eyeliner people that are over age they have a bonus eyeliner problems and mitigate potential. Harms One important area of concern I have regarding data collection is geolocation data and how it can be abused. I've seen it abused I Have seen women die because it has been abused. this subject has dangerous occupations for survivors of domestic violence, has seen somebody die of geolocation issues on the app that is medical care and protecting children from potential predators.

Mr True In your testimony, you wrote that current versions of the app do not collect precise or approximate GPS information from U.S Users yes or no answers please Mr Chu Have any prior versions of Tick Tock's app collected precise GPS Information from Us users yes or no? Well yes from back in 2020 about three years ago. Are there currently Tic Tac Users who still hold old versions of the app that collect precisely how do you listening? U.S users yes or no? that could be, but that's a small percentage today. Still dangerous Has Tick Tock at any time fed precise GPS information collected from U.S users into algorithms to serve user ads yes or no I will need to check on the details because we do not currently collect that. Sure I need to check on the details Yeah, Honestly, I was always wondered.

Isn't it a good thing that you get better ads that are more for you than not? Yeah I'm sure. genius. there was a bunch of I think it's something that I could be interested in into some ass whether you say yes there but has Tick Tock at any time fed precise GPS information collected from us users into the logarithms I know I'm happy talk today to make it does if I if I say yo I I want to buy a I want to buy a hot dog right now Jesus and then I I open up a lot of to talk and I get three ads and it's like Costco hot dog McDonald's Hot Dog burning hot dog yo. That's kind of wicked.

Differences need time fed precise GPS Information collected from Us users into a logarithms so no I'm happy talk today to make inferences about users yes or no I'm not sure if they're specific so I'd like answers yes or no after this has Tick Tock at any time sold precise GPS Information collected from us users yes or no, we do not sell data to data Brokers if that's the question that and you've never done that I Do not believe so as Tick Tock at any time sold or shared with third parties I Have to say he's really good. This dude is very skilled as Tick Tock at any time sold or shared with third parties it or a logarithmic inferences that were made using Empire Precise GPS Information collected from U.S Users yes or no Congressman I need to check on these specifics. What I can tell you is right now we do not collect uh, precise GPS Location data in the United States But why does Tic Tac still use conferences that were made using in part or in whole precise GPS Information GPS Information collected from U.S Users I'm sorry, could you repeat that does Tic Tac Still use inferences that you've gained that were made using in part in our whole precise GPS Information collected from Us users in your algorithms. It's supposed to be a very technical question I will have to check and get back to you has Tick Tock at any time provided the Chinese government with either precise P information collected from U.S users or inferences made from that data please And algorithms and basic networking course for all these that's what I said a chat yesterday.

We will watch this right I said I Said they shouldn't waste their time and the other side's time. They should have a basic basic Tech course or packet to read before going in there. So why is it bro bro, they're asking questions and they level one Tech at some ass intern level one dog should company with no like it. If I go into this website, do I have to put my real name into the systems even if Congress were to ban Tick-Tock I'm concerned that China or others would still have access to U.S consumer data by purchasing, purchasing it through data Brokers Will you commits tick tocks data to data data? Brokers Now or in the future we do not do that.

We do not sell data The data. Brokers Now will you commit to not do it in the future? This is a certain members of our industry who do this, you know I Think this has to be broad legislation to help us the whole industry address this problem. I Think I'm out of time. Thank you Madam Chair I'll yield back generally yields back chair yields five minutes to the gentleman from Alabama Mr Palmer is that competing products are all doing it even if they would not do it.

It's an industry problem that sucks. It's not gay, otherwise it's not. It's not a favorite game for anybody, it's just trash government. Uh, bought a share of Bite Dance? Uh, it's been described as as the Chinese Communist governments Bro Bro, Where was all this energy when Facebook we're running.

Like when Facebook was running it some insane psychological schemes by sabotaging people's private lives. What the thought was that way of choir? Oh, they did go and then you're right there. Well, did you hear that bro? Wait for that form of control There They ran right? Unless I'm wrong with this social experiments on YouTube's behalf without them knowing it. Yeah, like making some content or or people that interact with like not appear as often on their feeds.

and like that like bro, you have a little choice uh in selling a stake to the government. Uh if they want to stay in business. And what I'd like to know is when the Chinese Communist government moved to buy shares of Bite Dance, were you informed beforehand? Yes or no? No. Congressman Oh Wrong company.

Where you or anyone with Tick Tock ask for your opinion about the sale of shares of Bite Dance to the Chinese Communist government? Yeah, yes or no. What is it? It's just yeah, it hasn't happened. Uh, did you or anyone employed by or affiliated with Tick Tock State Any objections or concerns about the possibility of the Chinese Communist Government once they had chairs and Bite Dance exercising control over content, using your platform for conducting misinformation campaigns or restrictions, ensuring nothing is posted reflects badly on the Chinese Communist government or for surveillance and data collection for use against anyone. Did any of your you or anyone Affiliated was the question? There's any concerns about that Congressman We do not collect, We do not I Didn't ask you that we do not promote.

Did you raise any concerns about it? Because that's why we're here, but we do not promote or remove it. Behalf of the Chinese government. Communicate in any form or fashion with the directors of Bite Dance that there might be concerns about government control over content. Did yes or no.

Did you either did or you didn't Congressman I Did I Just wanted to make this clear we do not remove or promote content at the request of the Chinese talk. Insiders have already said that the company is tightly controlled. It even gets down to the hours they work. so obviously you didn't say anything.

There's a serious concern by Chinese companies privately held companies about doing anything against what the Chinese Communist government wants. I Want to ask you this does tick tock screen against manipulative content from Child Predators Yes or no Do we screen do you screen against them? Uh yeah, we do this drug cartels drug cartels cartel that was engaged in a police chase with Spanish authorities and they posted it on Tick Tock and got over a million views. Why wasn't that taken down? And are you doing it with human traffickers or terrorists? I Mean do you withhold content Um from Nations that might be committing crimes against humanity? Yes or no. Our platform is.

Yes, it's a Freedom of expression and uses to talk about that. But yeah. screen against content from Nations that commit crimes against humanity, the congressman, our users coming. Yes sir, No, Yes or no.

You need points of views and it's a commitment to keep this. Let me ask you this: Michael Beckerman Who is your vice President and head of public policy for America is right. Um is he part of the team that helped you prepare for this meeting? Yes or no? Um can I clarify who you mean Michael Beckerman Yes he is okay. Where is he at this moment I'm sorry this guy's face.

Who's this guy bro. This is like he's got like a built-in smug laugh face. Where's Mr Beckerman It's built in probably here. No, you know he's here.

He's sitting right behind you. I Want to know why when Mr Beckerman was on with Jake Tapper and asked repeatedly to condemn Chinese tree Chinese Communist Government's treatment of the Uyghurs when that treatment has been classified by the United States as a genocide one a U.N report classified as it as a crime against humanity Why? After multiple questions Mr Beckerman refused to. well he's was living. Are you afraid he's saying Chinese communist government no because you can find their content on our platform, any content that our users head of public policy for the Americas and and an American on an American television news channel why couldn't he say why couldn't he condemn that I think it's very important to look at our platform and if you use out and open our apps about your personnel now because Personnel is policy.

everybody in this room understands that except maybe you Personnel is prop. Let me let me just conclude with this and I hate to bring this up because I this is part of the stuff that I've said, but deceptionist fundamental. The Chinese Communist parties yeah yeah yeah and I guess I know what it means. there's something on behalf of the government if they moderate something.

uh I mean if let's say they stop doing something because these guys USA told them to stop doing that then aren't they removing content or money based on on the countries BF or countries is that they political intelligence and Military strategy and you have repeatedly used the word transparency throughout this hearing and every time you've said it anytime is something that it rule. Anytime I asked chat a question about this that isn't anti-china Chad says it xqz with this: What the is that man? What I've heard is deception I Yield back Gentleman yields back chair recognizes gentleman from Texas Mr VC for five minutes. Uh, thank you Madam Chair um I Got to tell you Mr Chu Um as a father of a 16 year old house, okay house Energy and Commerce Committee Surely, oh no, nevermind, it's the other guy No, this is this guy I Gotta tell you Mr Chu Um, as a father of a 16 year old that likes social media uh, the a lot of your evasiveness today in answering many of these questions really disturbs me because I can tell you that uh, the teenagers of today, they really don't want to be on Facebook they they won't. They want your platform and you were asked to come before this committee uh to testify about many things and and a lot of us are worried about our kids personal data.

Um, as the co-chair of the Congressional Voting Rights Caucus also worried that uh Tick Tock uh is the world's most powerful and extensive propaganda machine. uh, allowing the Chinese Communist party to use Tick Tock's platform to influence public opinion and undermine the into. I Don't give away China USA Fiji Islands Russia Antarctica The Island of Penguins The app spreads propaganda related to brain rot. It It spreads black mold inside the brain full time.

Everybody does it. Okay, so the app doing it bro. it's just it's the users that are brain dead. Integrity of our Democratic elections and I have a report called Tick Tock and Facebook failed to detect election disinformation in the U.S While YouTube succeeds and this report was published, he said this is what I have a report uh called Tick Tock and Facebook failed to detect election disinformation in the U.S While YouTube succeeds and this report was published by the non-profit Global Witness and the Cyber Security for Democracy Team at NYU and the purpose of the study was to test platforms like Tick Tock and whether or not they can detect and take down false political ads targeted at U.S Voters young voters ahead of last year's midterm elections.

And according to this, how about you fix your mainstream media? yo? How about you take your national television and you started doing it about the absolute Garbanzo trash on National cable TV before they fixed some ads on some bum website? What? The 90 of election disinformation ads tested were approved by your platform? Again, that is 90 of ads containing false and misleading election misinformation. Uh, went undetected on Tick Tock and just to add some color to the type of misleading ads that were approved by Tick Tock This included ads that were live on Tick Tock that had the wrong election day and actually encourage people to vote twice. You do know that voting twice as a felony Mr Chew You didn't know this is legal to vote twice Congressman Um, any misinformation that comes around a political connection is something we take very seriously. Let me um.

I'm particularly sure about this type of information. Uh, because it can run rampant on Tick-Tock And given that Tick Tock Again, uh, you all are appealing to a very young and diverse user base. That is exactly uh, the people that we've seen targeted time and time again with uh, voter suppression campaigns run by malicious actors. Uh, Mr Chew Do you agree with me? That is that it is completely unacceptable that 90 of these ads were undetected on your platform.

Uh, in Kenya Yeah, Right now, Tick Tock's policy regarding selection. Is there some paid political AdSense Such information, and how you plan to get that number down to zero is a place for our users to come and express their points of views freely. We do take misinformation, dangerous information, particularly around an election, very seriously, and we'll work with: Jeff Do you think that let's say Democrats or Republicans make an ad on the from the opposite side? So let's say I'm a Democrat I say yogiser I'm up I'm I'm a I'm a live geyser. Go forth twice.

guys. if you're Democrats vote on the fifth it's not the wrong date supposed to identify Miss Um, misinformation and you call allowing 90 of false content political content on your platform to be taking because you call that you define that as being taken seriously I I Um I Need to look into the specifics I I'm you know not sure where the number came from, but I can tell you Congressman that we are the only person that I know of that doesn't actually take political ads I Don't we don't accept money? I Don't think other platforms can say that Mr Shu can you detail how you responded to that report? Did you respond to that report that I just mentioned I I Need to look at the specifics of the report Congressman and I can get back to you on that, All right? Mr Chu I Want to shift to project Texas I Know that we've discussed this initiative throughout today's hearing, but I Want to dive deeper into your notion that promises about that's good in Texas and Tick Tock's ability to localize U.S Data and discontinue access? Uh to that data uh to Bite Dance employees in China Uh, Why? Because we've already had a Tick Tock executive appear before Congress and give sworn testimony about the comfort that we should take in Tick Tock's uh, us-based resources. Well, Tick Tock Uh, Data security practices were being scrutinized by the US government and unfortunately, we've since found out uh from a from journalists and recorded conversations uh that those assurances were, uh, were worthless. Uh, in your testimony, you also mentioned that Oracle has already begun inspecting Tick Tock source code and has access to the platform's recommendation algorithm.

Uh, why should this give the American public any great assurances? particularly uh, given that Oracle now owns a stake in Tick Tock and sends the gain monetarily the more Revenue The Tick Tock and its algorithm generates who's Oracle Congressman Not only is Project Texas unprecedented in our industry in protecting U.S user data and interests, we are inviting third parties to come in and monitor this and we will, you know, be transparent in that process. This is more Beyond Most all companies that I know of my industry. Thank you Madam Chair I'm out of time wait bro, that was a good answer Yo wait wait. I'm pretty sure that uh, earlier when I watched it is is he saying chat that their Endeavor is ahead of the curve and whatever money they're spending on this and making it in this better, other companies can use it and and and and gain from it when they're using it up here.

that's gonna die again. Back sure recognizes the gentleman from Florida for five minutes. Mr Dunn Thank you very much Madam Chair Mr Chu I'm aware that on arriving in Uh DC this week you appeared on Tick Tock and posted you had 150 million U.S users 5 million U.S businesses that that represents a lot of data, You also referenced your appearance before this committee as a chance to oh Florida Oh hell not protect Americans Using the app Mr Chu has Bite Dance spied on Americans at the direction of the Chinese Communist Party no um Madam chair I'd like to enter into the record Uh, this October 20th 22 Forbes Article entitled Tick Tock Parent Bite Dance Plan to use tick tock to monitor the physical location of specific U.S Citizens thank you Why the project assigned that this to a Beijing leaded team and they were going to follow individual American Citizens I asked you again Mr Chew Has white dance spied on American Citizens I Don't think that spying is the right way to describe it. This is ultimately we can differ or Bite Dance data that is viewed, stored or passes through China is subject to the laws of China One Party authoritarian State hostile to All American Standards of privacy China's court system reports to and falls under the Chinese Communist Party and like Fentanyl analogs which we all know are also manufactured in China although they are illegal there I Fear Tic Tac will Tick-Tock will grow into a much bigger problem.

A cancer if you will. I'm deeply worried that it may be too late of this cancer. Like Fentanyl another China export which causes addiction and death. Dangerous algorithms in Chinese Wait, is it phenolic like an important medical um medical compound? Let me just party are not good for Americans Not good for our families and definitely not good for the United States Mr Chu Prior to serving as the CFO A Bike Dance you served as a CFO and director Global operations for Show Me Guys Is it not importance uses uh medically for the compounding.

Uh, it said put in synthetic opioid drug approved by FDA I'll use as an analgesic pain reliever. Um seems useful to me. 2015 to 21 Is that correct? Are you asking me in 2015? Very good. Do you mind repeating that face Madam chair I'd like to uh uh enter another article into evidence.

uh uh well I I think I think it's dumb comparison I mean he's saying that that China exports a product that the US asks for and is FDA approved. That's like saying it yo. people are dying from um bro sniffing glue that's made in China You guys are exporting the glue bro. The problem is people sniffing the glue, not the glue itself.

This is from uh, the National Cyber Security Center in Lithuania Without objection, so ordered Becky This report outlines numerous data security risks, including how the privacy of European users was violated in clear cases of unauthorized collection of user data by Show Me. This sells exactly what many of my colleagues have been talking about today. Um then going on charge I Don't get it. Different trade routes.

Legal and illegal. Okay, so wait, they make an extra illegal Jay fennel worse she had to show these phones sold to Europeans had a list of 449 words oh that automatically censored on the device. Censored phrases included The Voice of America and Democratic movement among others. This analysis was conducted on devices which were manufactured and salty.

Europeans While you were the head of operations for Show Me it does not follow that. you expect us to believe that you would not censor on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party Since you've already done so I Want to be unequally vocal on this? We do not remove all promote content on people. Your word strives to deliver on their mission to inspire well. They never let them talk bring joy to American users I Assure you that is not the mission or goal of the Chinese Communist party which runs the People's Republic of China That Tick-tocks parent company Bite Dances Domicile did Mr President In any respectable court of law, they would get collapsed for talking like this.

Why don't Why don't the judge one of the of this of this hearing say anything about this Right This way. this would never fly. Yeah, you have not given straightforward answers. We don't find you credible aggressives that that moderates this on these things.

Uh and uh with that Madam Chair I'd like to yield the balance Congressman You have given me no time to answer your questions I reject the characterizations Dr Dunn Mr Old Bernalty Okay, well thank you Madam Chair. Uh Mr Chu I'd like to continue our discussion at Project Texas if we could, part of project Texas is that engineers at Oracle will review the algorithms California What's up bro? let's go about something right. Used by Tick Tock to confirm that they're free of foreign influence? Uh, I have a question about that because we're talking about uh AI That's a very generic term. Do you use machine learning to influence the algorithms at Tick tock in? this gets very technical and we have published several blogs about this which I can forward.

No, but yes, it's mainly based on interest signals, right? Okay, so yeah, so here's my question. How could looking at the algorithm confirm that it's for free from foreign influence Because the algorithm is just a neural net architecture with inputs and outputs and weights. And how to train that? I mean the influence is an external Factor Well, you could easily reverse engineer this and see it backwards. No, it's a good question though.

So I've said weights and how to train that I mean the influence is an external Factor So I'd appreciate it if you could. if you could give us I See, we're out of time Again, a written answer to that. but again, I am concerned that what you're proposing with Project Texas just doesn't have the technical capability of providing us the assurances that we need. I Go back Manager! Oh, it's a new network.

yields back chair recognizes Miss Custer Makes sense actually. Miss Aragon for five minutes. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. um Mr Chu Tick Tock warns users when content is graphic or disturbing and label State Affiliated media accounts to ensure the viewers aren't seeing propaganda.

Does Tick Tock provide similar information to Spanish speakers users as well as English speakers I Believe So, Congresswoman I will get back to you on that. Okay, and do you know if Tick Tock has a specific strategy for tackling Spanish language content that violates its trust and safety guidelines? Oh, we do. I Will get back to you on the specifics on that. Okay, uh, when offensive English language search terms or hashtags are blocked for violation.

Oh, it's a buildup. The questions are bad. Is it's a buildup? but she's getting someone with this. Let's see it then.

Uh, when offensive English language search terms or hashtags are blocked for violating Community guidelines in English is a Spanish translation of the term or the hashtag automatic Automatically blocked as well. I I Believe so. but let me check the specifics and get back to you. probably not.

I Have any idea how many people that you might have work in a Tick tock that addresses Spanish misinformation I know ballpark. It's um, quite a significant team. but I can get back to you on this thing on the details you think? So, you said significant? So are you saying it's? you. Have a ballpark at all you can give us? Would you say it's like 10 of your force? Or it's an important number? So I want to be precise and I'll get back to you.

Okay, do you happen to know how Tick Tock? How if a tick Tock can effectively ensure that Spanish-speaking users between the ages of 13 and 17 are not being targeted by ads promoting harmful content? We have very strict policies for our users who are in the teenage age group and regardless of what language they speak. so we want to make sure that they are given a very safe yeah, but yeah, but okay. Originally though, how it is I mean I get it? This guy probably knows a lot about the company, but it's like the very specific data set and it's it's just. you have to be prepared.

This is a supercise experience on our platform regardless of the language day. Well, I know I'm just trying to figure I'm trying to to ascertain resources to um Spanish speaking and Spanish language. Last year, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus met with Tick Tock. This was one of the conversations and a source of Um the discussion was addressing Spanish language, dis, information and misinformation.

It remains an urgent priority for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus as Hispanics across the country increasingly turned to social media for Vital Information We heard earlier in this hearing that there was you know video um, there was a Tick Tock post threatening uh, the chair of the committee and it took some 40 days uh to take it down. So I guess I'm a little concerned. Um, if you if your team doesn't have the resources and the capability to flash yeah, what kind of capability is it going to have to bring down Miss information disinformation to Spanish speakers which I'm assuming is a smaller fraction of the workers that you have at Tick Tock. Uh, Tick Tock is a place for you know, all our users to come and express.

they're very diverse views and you know we are open to all ethnicities you know and we're open to all, uh, everyone to come here and express their freely expressive views. So it is our commitment to make sure that the safety of those users, regardless of the language you know and of course you know the Spanish language user base is super important to us. Okay, we need to make sure that we continue to. In case you don't you don't have an answer then okay I will look forward in your coming.

You're coming back. Um, we've heard a lot about the the concerns um about children who may be on Tick Tock Mr Chu At what age do you think it would be appropriate for a young person to get on Tick Tock? We have three different experiences here in the United States Uh, there is an experience for the 13s which is really highly restricted. I'm asking what you think would be the appropriate age to have a child get on Tick Tock Our approach is to give differentiated experiences for different age groups and let the parents have these conversations with their children to decide what's best for their family. So you think that there is a sufficient Um safety mechanism for an eight-year-old to be able to access Tick Tock An Ado's experience on Tick Tock will be so highly restricted that every single piece of content he or she will see will be vetted by Common Sense our third party child safety expert and the the Ado would not be able to post and the Ado will not be able to see any personalized feed and zero advertising in that experience.

The biggest weapon to all Chinese propaganda dog should trash harmful anti-cha material is yeah. Parenting holy. It is the appropriate experience for an idiot. Jesus Child on Tick Tock I Have seen this news article so I would like to address that.

My kids lived in Singapore and in Singapore we do not have the under 13. Oh, awoke if they lived here in the United States I'll let them use the under 13 experience. Okay, so you're saying it's because of the country you live in. Fans are busy working it.

It's for your. It's your job as a parent to find Solutions right to when you're not there when you're away. So the device is not to run a rampant and give it a dog if that means they cannot add the device. So if it can be at this does that sound extreme? Yeah, there's other Solutions right There is a resolution.

It's your. It's your job. When you become a parent, you have your job as an engineer right or or a worker job. You now have a second job.

You're not a parent right? It's your job to find Solutions tailored for your lifestyle, for your children, not to be harmed by online social media behaviors and ongoings. It's your if you cannot take this job next time wear a condom dumb or just jerk off what is wrong with you. It doesn't have the same mechanisms. Is there a reason you don't have the same mechanisms everywhere? Uh, in principle we want to provide you know, a good experience for our users in general We don't We don't want to monetize from people who are under 13.

in the US we are Copa compliant and as part of that we were deemed as a I want to get this specifics right we will deem as a particular type of audience makes audience app make you want to make sure that that's right and as a result of that we have to provide an experience to our under 13 users in this country as well. My time is expired. Thank you I Yield back he yields back. chat chair recognizes I Wish they took the time to ask like two really good concise questions that they know we have an answer and do it back and forth instead of just asking six similar questions.

That is it. No stop, No. I'm good, not yield Now we're going next, bro that is Harry Potter and I'm from Utah Mr Curtis is calling it on I wonder how this is yo Chad Be nice yo I know I Hear you dude. Hold on I'm gonna.

can you hear me? Yeah bro bro. this is my daily Azan uh political update uh um I've seen you, You're you're saying uh, family regulation? uh or a family should check in on their own children which is that bad take or not I think that's an understandable thing to say I I agree I think that uh, you know parents should do good parenting, but uh, obviously you can't always. uh, you can't always respect that. which is why I think that uh I'm in a weird situation where I'm a super Centrist on this matter on The Tick Tock issue because on the one hand I think that they're like aggressively attacking tick-tockers is Chinese but like the problems that they're bringing up literally exist for all social media anyway.

if you go on most devices in the US right? even even even households that have uh, that sort of dynamic and you want to go to a computer that's accessible by everybody and type PornHub and enter, do you think, do you think that actually goes through and they can see all the images? Is it gonna pop up? well I I Think yes, right? I I think uh, um, you know, like I think this stuff is I think anything's accessible, but there are solutions against them, right? Anything that falls to the hands of the parents, right? Well that bro bro. Yeah, I think parents have to I Think parents should do better at controlling what their children definitely look at. But um, but when you're writing policy, you can't really factor that in. You can't really Factor Individual responsibility into policy Provisions because I mean that's a very American way to look at situations.

But like, no matter what happens like seat belt laws for example, right? Like you can just say everyone should wear a seat belt and it's up to you as an individual to wear a seat belt, right? Like if you don't wear a seat belt, well, you up. But the reason why we have laws around it is because a lot of people don't actually do that. So you have to factor in for the stupidest person possible. Just like you have to factor in for the stupidest parents possible when you're regulating this kind of content.

and I actually don't know how what the best practices are either. I I Didn't know what it is. Um, it's it This makes things very difficult for monetizing and other things, but the extreme solution is having something like YouTube YouTube for kids, you do for kids is ex is heavily moderated, very curated, and yeah, contents very pure. I Think four children right? and if you have the same type of vibe with Tick Tock then it would be hard to break out of the circle when you're entering that.

I'm pretty sure Guys YouTube for Kids is fantastic for kids. Yeah, and that happened because there was a massive problem on YouTube right? Yeah, yeah, there was a massive problem on YouTube with respect to like what kind of uh, what kind of stuff was like being shown to children from like Elsa gate or whatever right like or frozen gate. um I Think that uh, that is actually understandable to to implement for every single platform whether it be Facebook whether it be YouTube There's also another component here though. I I Agree with you I think that's a good way to do it.

that's like and if companies don't do it, the government should step in and be like no, you have to do it You know what I mean Yeah, I don't give a what the you know law says or I don't give a what the Constitution says like you have to do it I Think the problem is though, is that usually that's when you have a full-fledged product already right? and then you're refining your product. The problem is that apps are are growing so fast so quickly, right? that by the time that that, um, there'll be time to implement those things and the Bible is law I I Feel like it? Um, the damage has already been done right. So no. I get it like yeah I think I was kind of big now.

so I guess but these are things that are like difficult to implement. uh overall, um but what do you think? Okay, do you think? okay, do you think he's hearing it, the guys being disingenuous and then answer the questions or what? uh I mean he's a CEO So of course he's being like a little disingenuous, but there's a lot of Truth to what he's stating when he says our practices are no different than any other social media company Real. that's why. Like that.

That part is like 100 true. If anything, they might even be a little bit better than other social media companies because they from what I understand Tick Tock doesn't sell data to data brokers in the same way that like other uh, yep, uh, other corporate entities do in America The entire issue here is literally Tick Tock is too successful and it's not ours. Okay, it's it's It belongs to the Chinese And that's terrifying. That's basically what they're saying over and over again because every single argument that they launch towards Tick Tock with respect to regulation, content regulation, content moderation, right? But um, every single argument that they launched towards like data privacy, data security.

every single one of those arguments is actually the exact same argument you can launch towards Mark Zuckerberg that you can launch towards even Amazon you can launch towards uh yeah yeah yeah uh. Start with like, um, industry standards industry right? because if you're gonna cut them off from doing a certain practice and you have to cut them off if you have to cut off everybody right? Because the practice is bad, not the company because I do agree with that. A lot of things that are happening on Tick Tock haven't not happened. I'm fine.

it happened on other platforms. it happened on MySpace. It even happened on like mindset. people were like killing themselves.

foreign. Yeah, so it's like I mean well Tick Tock is technically just a Vine reskin. Anyway, it was Vine and then musically and I think I bought musically and and blew what the up because it like blew the doors off the uh, the the algo and and basically let fly no matter what, right? Um, so ultimately I think and this is what other people are speculating on as well. The reason why they're doing this is because like you know how meta Facebook tried to do like Instagram reels and it failed and YouTube is now doing shorts.

Yeah right. Yeah yeah. and YouTube shorts? has been pretty successful so far from what I understood. But they're not.

Brute wasn't enough. The problem YouTube is that the problem with YouTuber is that they're so defensive of their main product. They're live. They know their YouTube content products.

Yeah, the vods. Yeah the vods. Yeah the VOD that they will. They they can never integrate a new product.

There's an option guys. you can click this if you want to like it's it's not. They have to try it like really hard because of course could be good. I think but it's bad.

Yeah I think I Think What's going on here is that they're trying to literally Brute Force Tick Tock and and sell it to an American company I mean they're very openly stating it. They're saying bite Dance has to divest Like because oh my Dance has to divest so there's no Chinese involvement whatsoever. even though like Tick Tock has foreign investment in it as well. obviously foreign control in it and it's actually an American like it's a western focused application.

Tick Tock exists in China It's just not called Tick Tock it's called Doyan and it's an entirely different product. uh with with respect to like how uh, the information is controlled on there. Really? Yeah. So the Chinese Tick Tock is called DOI and it's also owned by uh by Dance That's smart and and on that they have insane levels of control like well children see like museum videos and you know what? I mean they're not allowed to they they literally they literally give you like uh, educational material.

it's not. It's not the same as uh Tick Tock at all. I mean with respect to both countries I mean they can do whatever the they want if it's their side of the their side and their app and their country. I mean what the do? I What I mean my morals playing ethics Play No Role here it's they.

They do their thing right. I mean yeah no I know I'm just the only reason why I'm pointing that out is because like I think a lot of people are upset at Tick Tock and they're like oh, Chinese government's like controlling our minds or whatever but like they just gave a marketable product. That's it. They made a very marketable product that is like demonstrably successful and now they're mad because it's owned by uh, not Silicon Valley but instead owned by uh A A A Chinese company.

Okay, so do you think that Tick Tock is now like fully like Taco belled uh uh into the US pretty much. Or do you think it's still like gonna kind of like still pretty Chinese type no, it's it's never been Chinese Tick Tock has always been. That's why I said like Dolian is Chinese Tick Tock is very American So everything you criticize about Tick Tock you're basically criticizing a mirror, you know. Tick Tock just gives you what you want to see, right? Like in your case, you want to see Buba.

All of your likes are booba. So Tick Tock shows you booba. You know what I mean Yeah, that's it. Yeah, what about that is that is that? Um, you know, like even though they own the thing even though they own their own Tick Tock Right, it's technology.

it's fully normal. Like is it operating just like it was like an American-based American-made company pretty much as Tick Tock itself in its operations. Or do you think it has like like weird backwards ties or like like no, there's still a tie to the Chinese government Yeah. I think Any any kind of like statement that that basically diminishes China's involvement is silly.

That's silly I think that's a lie. Uh, like it. It definitely still like the Chinese government has uh, basically infinite levels of control over every Chinese Corporation and all of its subsidiaries. Um, so you could literally do that.

You could make that argument for everything all the way to like League of Legends you know what I mean Yeah, let's say some some big thing happen I'm not gonna be a fair Monger okay but but this is some immense thing happens overnight some crazy news Pops in it and then China could would buzzer decide to ask to just back door data leak the whole Wazoo like instantly right? I mean they could right? What do you mean oh they'd like get all of the information uh through back door measures I mean if they want to, if they're just yo, open the back door to the data and just we need all that and then you can just suck all like the US uh us-based U.S sourced user data yeah oh 100 yes I I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they could do that. Now here's the funny. well that's that's the liability. Yeah I mean I don't know.

Here's here's the interesting part about that though. Okay, the American government also has that access to every single application and they use it regularly except for tick tock I Think that uh, unless the Chinese government says yeah, no, you can take all this information as well. We don't give a I don't know if the Chinese government or like Bike Dance is given uh, backdoor to backdoor access to like the FBI NSA CIA Um, but I mean they can just look at that through your isps anyway. but the United States of American government already does this all the time for every single application.

Now here's the other side of it too. We have data brokers data Brokers already are doing that for all every single application as well. So there's also the private side of this. So when people say oh man, Tick Tock is like uh, stealing your information uh the Chinese government doesn't need tick tock to steal your information.

Yeah, exactly. So Chinese government could just pay for your information through a data broker if they wanted to get it. Okay, but there's no way to stop that really. So so what I'm getting from this is that there isn't much more information than what is already sold by data Brokers that would be important uh, or or crazy that somebody else would have like.

If they want to have it, you don't have to have most of the info on it. All that matters because you have a three data Brokers like I think the back door to the thing just wouldn't give them a a big up on that. yeah I mean I think there's a additional information like that is hyper targeted and Hyper specific to individual users that you could have when you have backdoor access into the application because it's your application? Uh, certainly. But I think ultimately, what the are you clicking on right now? Oh my Lord dude, what the was that? it's Ramadan bro.

What is this this is Haram Jesus think about the Muslim juicers bro. they're fasting bro I'm my bad man. my bad chat you guys sorry about that Anna Um okay then then what about um bro. What about what about Valimanth isn't 10 cents.

It doesn't Tencent own or write games or write the environment that red Vanguard on that computer and Vanguard is in the the absolute core of my computer sucking my juice. It's linked directly to China yo yeah no look like yeah exactly. That's why I said League of Legends Yeah bro bro yeah I'm pretty sure like like like the whatever the difference is, the difference is congresspersons children are watching Tick Tock non-stop 200 million Americans is the number that they mentioned not every single person's uh, you know children are are playing Valente child game. ah what's the main difference? It's more about like what you point the finger at.

uh what? you point the finger of it. like what you pay attention to. you know what I mean that's it. That's like.

that's what that's what people are, uh, upset about because Tick Tock is like so massive. You know what I mean um you can make that argument about Discord you can make that argument about like so many companies that are owned by Chinese uh conglomerates. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's gonna. It's kind of difficult because I feel like it.

The point is to create the most competitive, best product they can I think a lot a lot of a lot of documentaries that I've watched or like pseudoscience or scientists. or they all study data from all these social networks and they're liking. Well this is made to be as addictive as possible. Well I Do agree.

I Do that. it being addictive is is a byproduct right of making that people want to use the app, making it competitive, making it a better product. If somebody uses your app a lot, the product is good. It's addicting.

Yes. I Get it. I Get nobody. Work with like a like a psychologist and like like lead people that I get that.

but everybody is. It's a competitive market, everybody is fighting for people's attention and it's a high preventative markets right? If you want to make a better product and that's just yeah, that's just it. I did it. And when you can't make a better product when you've tried and you can't make a better product then like your Innovation is like VR or whatever like Meta was doing which was dog right Ed what do you do you tell you? Tell the people that you've paid in in Congress the politicians that you've paid to uh to bully Tick-Tock uh because it's because it's a Chinese company and a lot of people hate China Americans are like terrified of China You can get away with like that kind of messaging too and then force them to sell it to an American uh, you know American wealthy guy so you know that's that's they're basically using China to to rent, seek and and uh or they're basically using uh the government Congress to rent, seek and and forcibly uh acquire Tick Tock All right so the tick tocks counter on the other hand, is we'll just sell like we we won't divest.

But all of your data will be uh, inside of uh a a Texas facility and it'll be owned by Oracle Um, well if the if the if the actual concern was privacy, if the actual concern was like literal privacy of American citizens then that would be the perfect solution. Yeah right, Yeah, that makes sense. All right. So yeah.

one more question, not all the decision. Is there anything that ever comes out because these things happen all the time, right? These like hearings? whatever that are really stupid. Um, there. Is there anything good that ever comes on? This: Is there anything at all that ever gets produced or progressed through with this dog? Is there any what at all that gets produced? Is there any progress to this interaction of CEOs and and Congress people through their questioning and answers? Is there anything good that happens from this? From these these discussions I think in a lot of instances this stuff is just.

it's just nothing. It's just the posturing, it's a little bit of content. Uh, usually these deals are cut and and uh, you know people are already. People have their own uh, perspectives on the matter before they actually, uh, you know, engage in this theater.

but it is theater. Ultimately I mean it's kind of mind-boggling it to see see these guys talking and these guys are like the leaders I mean These Guys These Congress people these are they lead. They this control the game. Like the game.

meaning everybody in the United States right? These people that are on the stage? well, not not particularly. I Don't think they have a lot of uh I don't I mean they have power together right through the legislative body. But the reality is, they're not working uh uh for for any individual interest beyond the interest of Corporations You know what I mean like they're all dumbasses in suits that look like they're doing something. but ultimately what they're doing is whatever corporations want.

The example I use often. Is this okay in: America the American government works at the behest of corporations. in China the corporations work at the behest of the Chinese government. That's the main difference.

So either you have full corporate control over the over the government like you have in America or you have tools corporate control over corporations by the government like you have in China Well, it doesn't sound. doesn't sound too bad to me to be honest. but yeah. I don't know.

Maybe I'm thinking about it too. Literally, which one do you think is worse? I mean it depends, right? Uh, if corporate interests are all that matters in governance, then we're gonna do whatever the corporations want. Even if like, the entire nation wants something, there's not going to be real Democratic process. There is no Democratic process in China either because it's at the behest of whatever CCP decides right? So if the CCP decides, you know, uh, you've sold spoiled milk to thousands of children, we are now going to execute you for corruption.

Okay, and for bribing an official, then China gets to do that right. That would never happen in America. What about a hybrid? What? What about? What about if the government had a big final say about stuff right? But it was mostly user slash people like an actual democracy, right? Yeah, No. What you're describing is uh, well, you're yes I agree and that is actually the best and the government will then sometimes and be like okay guys.

listen. I'm gonna tell you guys how it is again. um on this decision. You guys are you guys want? You guys all said you want this, These are all.

you're all pretty stupid. We're not doing this right and then they could like overturn some right I Think that they'd be pretty pretty good. No what, you're what you're literal. What you're describing is literally what it's supposed to be and what it's supposed.

How it's supposed to work under democracy. What you're describing is how the American government is supposed to work. How we claim it works in theory, but it's never how it works. So you're right.

You're absolutely correct. That is how you're supposed to do it. Okay I just get that on the flat. I Didn't know what I was saying, but I just seems logical to me that that no, it is logical.

Why? Why do you think it's illogical the moment I Agree with you. what the Well: because I just thought I sound like almost like I was like that I was radicalized saying that like I think it should be in the entrance. it should be the people's what they want. but sometimes the people are done a lot of times.

sometimes they can be like a video I I agree. I Think that you know that's why we talked about seat belts right? Like or drunk driving. You know what I mean are if there were no laws against them, be like, well I can drive drunk and be fine. You know it's not.

It's not about drunk drivers. the problem is drunk Crashers You know what I mean Yeah, that's what they would say, but you gotta have some laws now. The problem is that when you bring up common sense and people say you're radical, that's more of an issue about how shitty the system is that we exist under that's not your. that's not your fault.

You didn't say anything crazy. Yeah, it's pretty. You said something rational. Well, yeah, okay, I mean it it just because I don't know what is the best political system or whatever right? I just can't but feel like um, it seems like the corporations, uh with the money they just buy a body out and everybody's a bot and the whole thing is just um, it's like Moneyball right? but even the worst and Moneyball it's like a whoa, this is kind of dog right? This has got a trash Is it up? Is this? this isn't that just complete dog.

What? It seems like the current you're saying you don't know what the best way forward is right? You don't know what the best system is but but what? but it seems like we're just going random. No, no no really. it's like I was like is like the government how it works it's like it's like Moneyball right? Is it before? Uh yeah with the Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill right? But I don't know I I don't really really remember what it was. It's like a massive pay to win and then they just they just all like I guess like buy them right win.

Yeah the American government is paid to win 100 percent. Yeah, so I mean how how did they let this come into what it is right now? Why? Why isn't it? Has it never been? Has there never been any self-awareness as it's developed to Elijah not make it as as bad as this. Everybody said like yo guys So so the entire existence of the federal government is supposed to basically like everyone starts off at the same point that like if you let corporations go crazy, we're gonna have 1920s America You know what I mean the Gilded Age like they're gonna go crazy. They're gonna use child labor.

They're gonna do whatever the they can. They're gonna enslave people. You know what I mean um they're gonna do whatever the they can. Which is why like governments are formed right, Governments are formed in some ways to be in in Liberal uh democracies.

They're basically formed to stop all of the worst aspects of Corporations of corporate greed. right? That's why that's what the government is supposed to do like in a normal situation. Now if I were to point you to uh examples of like that kind of still existing I think one of the one of the best examples is like European social democracies where they do have some laws and some protections. You know what I mean like in America For example, um when you when you have a deposit you have to give your landlord your deposit.

in many instances your landlord just steals that yoinks your deposit. I Found out yesterday that in New Zealand the government came in, saw that that was and basically set up a system where you have to put it in a government Bank like you give it to someone else so the landlord can't just yoink it right? So that's like one way that they they saw a problem and dealt with it right bro bro bro. I saw this this squatting thing somebody gets into your house and that was the Airbnb thing announced their house. Yeah yeah, that's awesome I love that someone is see someone used pre-existing laws to to basically uh, basically use it to their advantage.

Now that's a little crazy obviously I think that that is that does go too far. no no that's not, but that that's a distraction that's like a one-off for the most part. like yeah, it's not like a it's not like a common thing that's happening. What's actually happening is that there are hundreds of thousands of empty vacant houses right now in Los Angeles and there's uh, around 56 000 to 60 000 homeless people in the streets.

So if it were up to me, I would try to make those empty houses uh, full in some ways while simultaneously building new houses as well government-funded houses. especially because we have a lot of surplus in the in the tune of uh, billions of dollars. I assume that without supervision I mean what if things get broken, destroyed, dirty to whatever. Like you know who's gonna pay for that? We do pay for that, but we we pay for it with our taxes already.

We pay a tremendous amount of taxes I mean I pay right now living in Los Angeles California I pay basically the same level of taxes I would pay if I was in like Norway you know what? I mean and I get nothing in return for that. It's awful. Why? Because they take a lot of that money and instead of spending it on education instead of spending it on roads instead of spending it on public housing which would literally eradicate the homelessness problem and normalize the housing market a little bit, they spend it on police. They they don't spend it on the actual ways to solve problems they spend it on.

Band-Aids Oh, does that make sense? Yeah. I So what about this? Okay, what about this? It's like if it's like if a pharmaceutical company figured out the cure to cancer but it was more exp. it was beneficial for them to keep cancer around and like literally uh you know uh beef up the uh the the the the uh medication that you have to take for the rest of your life instead of like the one-off uh cure. okay that's uh well I mean I mean the cure to cancer? Well is it isn't cancer just like a like a like a bad deviation of like of like cells and like that.

Is it like cancer? Like a concept It's kind of hard to like find a cure to a concept. It's like a mutation. It's like it's like it isn't that. um I'm messing it right Is in Kansas So I mean I'm not I'm not like super I don't know I'm not super knowledgeable on like biology and and how cancer works.

but from what I understand it's literally just like it's just like uh uh, replicating cells right? like a cluster that just goes crazy and keeps like uncontrollably growing. Okay, but yeah, okay, that was the point. But I Get it though. Okay, what if all the houses I event in this new this new patent and basically you make your house right.

Like all the walls, everything it has like a layer right of disposable something on it and then it's like you can't dirty it or break it because it's like there's like a layer of garbage. Like a layer in it, right? And if you want if people want to, if I almost want people people and they want to live in my house, that's like vacant too yo Squad and bro I don't give a but yeah, do people do that actually and then police like, uh, rip them forcibly from those homes. Uh, this happened in Oakland where a bunch of pregnant mothers got together who were homeless and like squatted in a in an empty house and then they've literally rolled tanks through to like forcibly remove them from the house because ultimately it's the same principle, right? Housing is uh, obviously a right. Like when you think about it, you need shelter to survive.

animals literally look for caves to to make sure that they can like, uh, you know, survive the elements right when it rains or whatever. the um, it's such a it's such an understandable position. Like it's just it's a right. But in the United States of America housing is seen as as a vehicle to it's seen as an asset.

It's seen as a vehicle to make money instead of a right. So and it's and it's uh, severely protected because originally in its Inception they wanted every American to be able to have a house like the white picket fence. That was the dream, right? Well all right. So what? So basically they set up a lot of measures to protect you.

Uh, to help you buy a house and to basically protect you having a house. And then capitalism happened where people were like, oh, we can use these protective measures to literally make more money off of just sitting on these houses. Oh and and you know, and renting it out to other people. Yeah, I It's kind of hard for me to find us find a solution to that.

I mean There Are Places right? Like red, Vienna is a great example of this. Uh, I can show you a short documentary that you can watch. Uh Austria found a solution to the homelessness problem. So Vienna is a very dense City and uh, 65 of the housing in Vienna is owned by the government.

It's like public housing. Okay, but yeah, what if you're the big building right full of places to sleep and it was all for the homeless. Run by the homeless right? And instead of paying you some people, they're paying employees to like wash or whatever right? Well they they. they paid their their own homeless right for them to stay.

and then they made in the whole place right? Wouldn't that be kind of dank though? Like they get to live there. What you're describing is, well they wouldn't be homeless anymore because they what you're describing is actually what a lot of places. Uh what. Some form of, uh, what a lot of places actually? Implement it's called the Housing First policy.

Okay, um, because the number one thing that you need to do in order to eviscerate homelessness. Like not as a preventative measure, but as a solution right to homelessness. Uh, the first thing you need to do is is, you know, give them shelter. So what you're describing is basically, uh, cooperatively owned, uh housing projects.

uh, or like a commune. You know what I mean Yeah, so so your your idea is actually not all that crazy. Uh, especially because you start off by giving them a home and then after that, uh, the the healing uh can take place. like because there's a lot of issues with, uh, homeless people.

Uh, there's a lot of issues with homeless people that uh, for example, have like you know, drug issues like they're they're severely addicted depending on like how many years they've been homeless or like have mental illness problems and like that. You know what? I mean they have a lot of trauma so then uh, you can you know you can start working with like social workers to implement measures to ensure that they can like become productive members of society again. you know. Interesting.

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, what if what if uh, they live there right? live in a spot, right? They buy and it's like okay, well you get to live here every day. You spend four hours a day like either cleaning stuff, doing the dishes, or making people's beds or like, like uh, passing the broom or whatever right? And the rest of the day you can do whatever you want and then boom and the whole building will be like maintained by on its own. Boom boom boom Nope.

Yeah. I mean you're You're saying that like uh, like homeless people uh should be given conditional housing on the conditions that they like clean up uh, their own uh you know, mess if they have a mess, Is that what you're saying? Yeah, we gotta chill. I mean I think that? um I think I mean there is. There are obviously issues with that.

Uh I think because like, well, some people are not going to be able to do that. There's a lot of disabled homeless people. You know what I mean like. It just depends on who has the means to be able to do that.

Um I think that that isn't the worst uh idea. But depending on like their level of mental illness you know, give me the best ideas. I think the best idea is that we set up programs uh with with a load of social workers. which means so many well-paid jobs.

We pay social workers better too, obviously. And then uh, we? um yeah, we Implement a system where we either tax vacant homes out of existence or decommodify housing in some other ways, right? Make it like as difficult as possible to be a landlord so that people aren't just sitting on empty properties with the hopes that like the property value accumulates right with the property value. Uh, a