Oh dude, it's a classic video dude, guys, that's a classic guys, that's a classic classic flat, earthers and scientists guys it's a it's a good one. This is a good one. A lot of folks have been asking for this for years now, and it would mean the world to me if you could check out this um, listen i'll, take a look at it. I'll, take a look at your game, i'll, take a look at it! It's just that normally i don't um, i don't usually click on like donal links that are like involved with by promoting it, because otherwise it seems kind of disenjoying at the spot.

It's like we have this picture of reality, that's a big puzzle, piece and then one of those pieces was just wasn't fitting. I'm always open to having a discussion with someone who is holding a wrong belief like this. Are you willing to change your mind? I'm not the evidence is so much. Nobody wants to be a flat earther, but if you showed me incontrovertible evidence, i would definitely go back.

Who wants the ridicule i'd like to tear them to pieces? Jesus? Okay, oh my god, i'm! I might just be flattered. I'm jim underdon executive director of the center for inquiry west, in los angeles and the chair of the cfi investigations group, i'm spencer marks one of the senior members of the cfi wait the what center for inquiry strives for default wait. This is elite professionals and and funny who asked the center of inquiry. The gations group, i'm spencer, marks one of the senior members of the cfi investigations group science advocates.

These are the facts. I'm a theoretical physicist and i'm with the university of uh irwin, i'm wendell walton, i'm a chief learning officer for a young startup, i'm shelley lewis, i'm a graduate of west point critical thinker and jumped out of airplanes. My name is dan glattman. I work guys.

Guys is that is that, like a lot of words for saying unemployed, because dan, the water man in the drinking water, filtration industry and a truth seeker, i get my flat earthers on the left at my globe, my glow birthers, i mean you mean your only step Forward, if this is true for you, i believe the earth was created by a higher power. I guess you know this is only one thing. I'm going to you know chat. Well, i i've been production for 30 years, prefer not to speak so um.

The bible is a flat earth book. If i speak, you have to take it literally, like, for example, in isaiah, when it talks about how the earth is like a clay wax seal, that's stamped with upturned edges. That's just not some fancy story. Please that's a similarity right, absolutely and then isaiah talks about too and i'm a christian uh.

He who sits upon the circle of the earth, there's a difference between a circle and a ball. Well, exactly. If you look at the original uh hebrew, it means disc. There's over 200 scriptures in the bible that point to a flat earth.

So this notion that you need god or some higher power to create the earth or the universe, is very old and was initially posited by people of a pre-scientific age. Since then, we have learned quite a bit about the universe coming into existence when that happened. Modern humans don't get their cosmology, they don't get their physics, they don't get their knowledge of the universe from the bible or any ancient text. It's sort of like the god of the gaps.

Once you know, people used to believe that lightning was god's wrath and throwing these lightning bolts, but once we understood it was a natural process. It's i think it's. This is a fine line of thinking is that if you want to get new information, it's it's better, not like yeah, god shrank a little bit now we couldn't distribute those lightning bolts to god. We had to attribute that to the real science um and the other thing.

The point about the bible specifically for me is: why is that one particular text, the correct one? You choose to believe that and that's fine, but there's so many other writings and so many other books. So why weren't they correct? Why is just the the bible correct? Well, what you'll find in a lot of these ancient religions is they're all flat earth religions. All their cosmology goes back to being a flat earth with an enclosed system. So it's not just the bible that teaches this.

It's many different religious. So one problem i have as to trying to explain phenomena happen in nature by holy books. Those are religious books, those are not books of science and it is wrong to infer or deduct a scientific um readings out of those books. My name is wendell.

I am a logical guy. Yes, i have a question chat, guys guys. Do fathers think that whenever you take a telescope and look at other planets, they're all circles, because they're all angled toward towards us like uh, the disc, is all pointing towards us boom in a perfect facing way? Uh, oh and everything, okay, so so, okay, it makes sense. I guess i don't understand what i'm trying to be understanding.

So every planet is a globe and it's flat, except for ours, uh in scientific flat earther. I didn't start out and no one starts out as a flat earther, but i had a lot of questions, so i actually got to the point where i had to go out and and put my own eyeballs on it. So we went out to an observation at salton c and things just didn't add up down there, so we've gone back probably a dozen times and i can guarantee you that there is no curvature over in distance. My view of this topic, that's the problem.

We have the advantage of information today, that's outside of uh channels, two four and seven and the few networks that are corporately owned. It's pretty easy to say: youtube, isn't research, but when you spend enough time, you're picking chat, isn't the golden gate bridge or whatever, literally so long that that that that they had to engineer the bridge around the curvature of the earth or whatever? Is that how it is, can anybody tell this guy about that? Youtube, isn't research, but when you spend enough time you're picking up quite a bit and with the discussion groups panels, we've gone against opposition we've opposed ourselves. Uh. Surprisingly enough flat earth is its own worst enemy.

So it's not that easy for us to come to consensus and we find that consensus is orchestrated and not actually scientific in any way. You know my grandfather used to tell me growing up, never believe anything. You read in the newspaper right. He told that to me now with the age of the internet, it's like you know how much of this misinformation are you getting there and when you have like eyewitnesses taking my video out of something you do have to uh.

Take everything with a grain of salt. That's why? Because of my um my multimedia background, i knew that all that stuff could be faked. You know, take it into photoshop, take it into after effects the the this guy transformed. This is the greatest song to a whole obelisk jesus christ, why there are so many flat earth believers out there right now.

The problem is the information from someone who decides to start a website or produce a youtube. Video is not reliable. When i have a toothache, i go to a dentist, my car breaks down. I go to a mechanic.

When you have questions about cosmology, you should go to an astrophysicist. You should go to a physicist. You should go to people who have spent years and years studying these ideas, not some six minute youtube video. There is a percentage of people that, if they saw a youtube video that was not within their scientific chops to refute on the face of it would believe anything else.

One of the things i will say is nasa.gov has their own documents out there that we get to vet, which is through the freedom of information act. And would you agree that nasa documents, if they're on display that we should be able to go and research inside there nasa is not proving that the earth is flat? Well, they say you should read what nasa says and you should listen to what i would love to see. Your nasa evidence that the earth is it's only their contradictory issues. Okay, that brings us here.

We're all familiar with. The earth rise photo right. The earth is rising over the moon, we're all familiar with it. That's nasa you can go out to nasa's site.

You can download the original right. I already know what you're going to ask, so you bring up the luminance on it and you can see where it's cut out and pasted there they're, showing us doctored images that are clearly doctored. The blue marble is a very famous image from 1972. when you uh talk to the artist from nasa.

His name is robert simmons. He talks about exactly how it was created from data and it's not a photograph whatsoever. He added clouds. Let you know on your phone.

Most phones have that panoramic image, so you do that you're taking a series of picture and the phone cleverly stitches against how it's presented it's presented as a real film. So when nasa takes real photos and they either clean them up for color or they stitch them together, so it's one large image. It doesn't mean they're, cgi you're, talking about composites, i'm what you call a globe denier um. You could even get me into a virtual construct if i can't find the borders myself, it appears to me to be a stationary plane as opposed to the vastness of infinity of space.

I would find it to be an ice plane where we have a localized sun and our environment thrives there. You know these. These particular people have misled us. This is a brilliant opportunity to speak.

We've been suppressed censored by mainstream media. Alternative media is just a thing of beauty. For me, i view the other side as uneducated. Well, they certainly think they're, educated and they're following um.

Quite a bit of you know the university system. What we call scientism right. Scientists, obviously, is the belief chat in what is second things of what a dunning kruger is. Is it not isn't that what's written you're so dumb that you don't know that you're done in the field with physical properties, not theory, that's how it is kind we're using actual measurements, it's done not by our guidelines, but the guidelines of science.

As we know it. I can only hope, they're uneducated, as opposed to disingenuous. Well, that's the other thing too, because we know that it was on a large scale. The government has been disingenuous and they're they're they're pushing a narrative right.

So it's it's hard for us. I mean i'm sure that you've met people too. It's like look, are you just you haven't looked into it yet or are you a shill? Are you are you part of a disinformation campaign? I don't think you guys are uneducated, i think you're wrongly educated. I think the problem with what i've seen in the flat earth they're undereducated, but they instead of looking at evidence and letting the evidence guide to where the ultimate conclusion is, they start with a conclusion and then they try to cherry-pick evidence to support their pre-drawn conclusion.

They cast away all the bits of evidence that actually is contrary to their beliefs. I think that you're very well educated, as well as you are jim, certainly and get the best education of all of us exactly and he paid for it too um, but more and more uh professionals are coming on board they're starting to question their reality. So the thing of it is is once you start to really look, take a hard look at the evidence and you are are unafraid of just standing for the truth. Wherever that may lead you, then people end up becoming flat.

Earthers, i'm hoping to be able to tell our side of the story from the inside out so many times flat. Earthers are depicted you're from the outside their side of the story. Dude, there's no stories, there's the truth and there's nothing else. That's just how it is the what and i want to be able to share with others.

I don't need your story, ladies and gentle data. Nobody needs your story. Moves. The earth is not what we've been told.

I have changed my mind at so when i say what i have changed my mind at some point about this topic: oh okay! So when i was 12 years old drugs, i went to space camp and i met alan b shepard. Oh nice yeah. I love space skating, an astronaut, and i want to be the first woman to walk the moon. Oh it's sick! For me, i'm a glober! I went into this completely wanting it to be true, and my husband told me he saw this thing about the fake moon landing and i was like you're absolutely crazy.

There's no way that the moon landings are fake and then in 2010 my husband was killed, and so i never really developed that until around um 2014, when flat earth kind of came back, it was illegal to walk, and that was how did they make sorry and That little voice inside my head said remember the fake man landings remember when that was brought to my attention and then i started really critically analyzing that, and i would say you know just looking at that evidence if they can lie about the moon landings. They can certainly lie about pictures and satellites and other things, and so i started going down that rabbit hole of of studying. So that was my influence from how many lives does it take to make a liar right and being ridiculed for being inquisitive? Is that i appreciate i guess, then we go to the moon like a lot and a lot and a lot of times when we ran some tests took samples. We did a bunch of cool, they went a crazy amount of time right to the moon, at least a good amount of times right six seven times.

I think how many times they go to the moon right so if they faked it once for whatever result, they were trying to push as a propaganda. Let's say, let's say right eleven times i went to the moon. Why the did they go back 10 more times? Why would they risk the integrity of the lie by going twice three times four times five times 11 times is pretty tough on us? I wouldn't say that i've changed my mind because my mind isn't set nasa is is solely designed to change my mind. It is from its inception from its discovery has been a television program.

It's been a space program to sell us on something that they've yet to actually show us show me like what benefit would that bring to literally anyone anywhere 25 months has been a television program. It's been a space program to sell us on something that they've yet to actually show us show me a globe. Spinning with clouds and a moon show me home, and i think i could shut up quite involved in any program easily. I think i could shut up they've been showing him for years.

I understand it was a competition with the urss, it was a cold war right and the point of it was simple. It was simple if you show that you can land on the moon at uss. Ursus ussr, russ rus. I don't give a ussr guys in french.

It's it's shut up. Okay, it was a show. Okay, then, on the moon. They have high ground at a high superiority right.

So, if, because ballistic missiles, basically right, they don't, they have to leave the atmosphere and go into space pretty much it's it's like yo dude, like we'll clap, you type of thing right. That was the whole point of it, the timing of your conversions. Well, why would we all forget this one to me, 20 years ago, the flat earth world that was the whole point in was tiny and insignificant, uh guys the whole point: okay, is the united states got got scared, everybody got together and it was tense okay and They founded nasa and yeah. It was pretty much just the flex where's, the bigger dick.

If we can land on the moon, we can send a missile and clap your cheeks. That's how it is. Uh enter the advent of the internet youtube online discussion groups. All these new available places where you could find information about everything.

This is true that the evidence, as you looked, were not robust evidence and the sources you used. They were not reliable sources again, but my pro guys, some of the first rockets that were meant for the moon were literally emptied out ballistic missiles. Literally, that was the whole point. Nobody gave a about flying saucers, ufo and moon shuttles.

Nobody gave a it was war problem. Is that and i i like you guys, that you are very skeptical, but at the same time you are not skeptical about your belief system that you're going to come. First, you think that that's my foundation for why. I believe the earth is what and i'm telling you you're wrong.

I have evidence that proves it's flat. What we see too far, we see too far. We should not be able to see. I live in dana point.

Okay, i can see san clemente island, which is 60 miles away. So that's very high. What do you mean so what oh i'm on 100, i'm on the beach? What do you mean i'm on the beach yeah yeah? Can you see a ship is going? Let's talk about the ship that goes over the curvature of the earth. I love it.

So science has said that when i see a ship go out of my field of view, it's going over the curvature of the earth correct yes, but then i bring my p900 up and guess what i can zoom it back in. So is it going over the curvature of the earth or not absolutely not all the time? No, no, you don't see all the ship. The bottom part of the ship is hidden by the at that distance. You shouldn't see the top of it either.

If the earth were truly flat, there would be really hardly any limit. You'd be able to stand at the top of the empire state building and look towards chicago a mere thousand miles away and see the lights of chicago at night. Why? Wouldn't? Because you have an atmospheric disturbance, very thick, i've been into astronomy. Since i was 10., it's faulty logic, it's completely faulty logic.

Oh my one of the big things i do is investigate extraordinary claims like flat, eartherism or esp, or all sorts of different things. The earth is undoubtedly a globe and not flat. This is well supported by gobs of science. Are you going to feel bad check out? Imagine running a debate with in your family you're any christmas, and it must be tough scientific consensus.

What is the question? I don't understand scientific consensus is possible possible. Anything is possible, i mean anything is possible. I i've got a we've got a tremendous issue with consensus and peer review. I've been spending a lot of time, arguing with people that argue the other side, and i found that.

Surprisingly, consensus always works the science class. It was a specific discussion shocking to me that the group with the majority has an incredible advantage as scientists flat earthers truthers punks we're an incredible disadvantage. Let's talk about scientific consensus for a second you're, never going to get a hundred percent. There is scientific consensus on a global earth.

There's scientific consensus on evolution. A lot of big issues use the word theory. Do you know what a theory in science is an extremely and effectively fact? Don't mistake. This word theory: you are in science.

It's not conjecture, it's not explanation in science. The word theory is the highest level that you can give something, because it's so well supported. What about a fact that is a fact: it's it's! It's! Well, the fact you would you know why do you know why? Because in science there's always room for improvement, there's always room to find better to tweak and find better information. So that is how science works.

It gets better refined over time, as opposed to flatter theory which never gets refined. It simply is what it is. New ideas have limited access to media and limited exposure until we're in us university curriculums. We will continue to appear uneducated.

Well, that's not true good. In the history of science, we had many occasions that the ideas it was not welcomed by the society einstein was one of them. Galileo. Galileo was one of them, but if your theory is an authentic one and it can be go through, this hardship of scientific method eventually will win.

I used to believe that science was after the truth right they just. We all just want to know what the truth is right. Science has been trying so hard to divorce itself from the idea of a creator when god's intent was to create science to lead you to him, you know. Sometimes things seem supernatural that we are able to explain later through.

You know, science, okay, i understand, but there are other things as well that are supernatural that go beyond the natural that we can always explain uh through believing in a creator right. This is my big issue with science, uh scientific approach and not another religion, i'm trying to i'm trying to understand it. So so what he's saying is that in in in the manuscripts in the books - and it says that the science was created and if, if we do the science correctly we're going to find god unscientific approach, you are absolutely right. In science we are after the truth, and we are hoping by each day we're getting closer and closer to the truth.

We never get there. Never no! Well! I know that's true for you and i no, no that's a science. That's okay! That's you guys! You think you do have the truth. Now, let's look at the evidences as you remember, that's the end of the game do happen.

Let's find the evidences science doesn't work like a treasure map. You are referring to jesus who many billions of people do not believe, including myself and many more billions do so what so, who's right. Of course, i can so when you say that we all start and then try to match everything to make it work like that. To me is complete dishonesty that is not true at all.

That is what you are doing now: you're, not you're, making that assumption, no, which i think science does a lot of. So do you make assumptions or not? Does science make assumptions the science makes sense assumptions based on things that are well supported and proven and re-proven? We don't have to show me how you isolate gravity. If gravity you don't have absorption. You show me the scientific method, how you isolate, gravity.

We've done that conclusions. I kind of feel like i want to develop some of this stuff a little bit more. It feels high level, but i feel like there's so much that i haven't really even touched. Basically, just like a jumping, certainly anybody on either side was going to flip.

Well, there's still time, there's still time. I have hope for you wendy and sheldon. I don't know about dan, but um. You know it's.

Certainly i'm glad it's a civil discussion. Certainly, oh yeah put your wires to the side. Okay, oh no! No, they give up the problem he flipped. She seems to be very stuck on that topic.

What is isolating gravity the greatest moment in television history, all right nasa, so i mean. Obviously, any organization can be wrong with certain things and they may have individuals that lie or deceive or something, but as a general organization they're. Looking for the truth, yeah, the idea that nasa and the government is lying to us about the shape of the earth is the height of conspiracy theories. In order for this to be true, the literally hundreds of thousands of people who, at some point over the last 50 or 60 60 years would have to had to be somewhat complicit in this and nobody spills.

The beans at all is on the face of it. Completely unbelievable, all right, it's not wrong. It's always been a good argument that everybody is right. What the general is doing.

There's compartmentalization happening all the time, of course, so it wouldn't be that far-fetched has the government ever lied to us is really the question at stake. We all agree on that yeah. Oh thank god, common ground. Now we have nasa.gov right and we, oh absolutely they're, not lying about anything they're completely transparent.

Everything is true, we'd, be no there's a difference here, i'm sorry! This is a fallacy. Here, there's a difference. I'm sure it is, you were talking about a government now you're talking about nasa.gov, but this agency is scrutinized by thousands and thousands of scientists around the globe. You are dealing with smart people.

Believe me, you are don't deny. I don't deny that, so it is very hard to do that once or twice, maybe not for the whole time. Raise your hand. What is the proof, hundreds and hundreds of pounds of moon rocks and dust, and we have distributed those freely to phd scientists around the world and not one of those geologists have said what is this proven to be fake and also collected on the ice in antarctica And in the arctic as well, those are collected, though you don't have to go to the moon, to get moon rocks.

As a matter of fact, all u.s air force, photography prior to 1958 shows a flat earth. Only nasa shows us true. Is we have a laser retro reflector on the moon, yeah that we're using now we still use to this day it's sitting there. You can find to the inch how far away the moon no pictures of home.

That only is there, but whether or not my question to you is why. Why would all these honest, hard-working people perpetuate this massive fraud? Why would they do this? What's the benefit? Okay, the benefit of it. They make 52 million dollars a day. Follow the money.

No, the little money, the little guy. That's what then, when you say all okay, but it didn't start out that way and nasa was not founded to prove that earth was a globe. It has nothing to do with the weather. There's! No.

If you go and study, are you sure yeah positive? Really? Yes, guys, wait! Wait you guys who makes money guys it's a branch, the government they they have funding. Of course they make money, they don't they don't make the money. Somebody has to be a voice. For reason, and somebody has to be a voice for truth, it's allocated a fantasy to believe that i would change anybody's mind from the other three.

However, if there's somebody sitting on the fence - and this is the first introduction to this debate - perhaps they'll hear the reasonable voice and say that makes more sense than having this pizza shaped earth. I used to be a ball earther. Everything you say right now is completely what i used to agree to, so i completely understand where you're coming from. For me, i think the correct way to do any kind of investigation or to examine things is by literally putting yourself in that mindset of the other person.

I do do that. I disagree with your position, but i completely understand from your perspective what you're saying the trouble. I have understanding your perspective is in the modern world unless you live in a cave somewhere, you have to believe in science. Implicitly, i met a flat earther, a young woman who said i don't trust anything that science does and that's a problem, because human beings can't replicate the whole body of science every single generation.

At some point, you have to trust, what's already been discovered and proven and move on to the next thing, otherwise we're not going to advance at all i mean when you turn that key ignition in your car, you expect the car to start out and not blow Up and not blow up because science puts you in that position, so it's really hard to understand how people would know in their hearts that science achieves wonderful things and then just jumping ship when it comes to this other issue, we're not drawing conclusions. We understand the mechanisms that made that car work. There is no theories and no no disputed conclusions involved there. It's not a good analogy.

Can i admit a great compromise that we have to experience being against the grain people is we have to literally sit in a group and decide whether or not we can afford to have an opinion? And that's that's tough. I i actually i i agree with you. There, because we're the same thing i mean i i think, skeptics go through this and atheists go through this. I don't believe in god, when i'm around religious people, i take a chance socially.

When i tell them i'm an atheist, so i know it takes some courage to follow your beliefs, and i appreciate that, but i think i've done a lot of research in that venue too, and it's not something i choose to believe in it's something i have to Believe in based on the evidence, see what i get from you guys is that seeing is believing. So how come you believe in god or jesus you haven't seen, neither of them right. I've seen evidence, though. Well exactly so, we are looking for evidence.

There are many. Many other evidences for earth not being flat. My point is that these are these experiments clearly show that the earth is global and you don't need to go outside the globe to see it's globally. It's it's a thing.

You told me you want evidence if you're saying that you look only to see something, then i dispute your belief system in god and jesus or jehovah or buddha or zara or anyone you keep going back to religion as because it's coming from there, you do it That is not the only reason i know what the shape of the earth is. That's fallacy, it's not fallacy. Actually, it is i'm a theoretical physicist. What i'm doing is the combination of string theory and cosmology.

So we try to understand what happened during the big bang. After the big bang, or even before the big bang, what are you hoping to get from the discussion today? Well, i hope i would be able particular to the young generation to convince them that first, they should think critically and don't believe anything. They shouldn't take anything for granted, look at the evidences and examine those evidences and throw away those claims that are not evidence-based. Science.

Not to put it down, but when you're talking about rocket science, this is very difficult for the majority of people to understand, and it's designed that way, and so in a what huh is it? What did you just say that are not evidence-based, um science not to put it down, but when you're talking about rocket science? This is very difficult for the majority of people to understand, and it's designed that way, and so oh it's, the guy hiding behind rocket science, is similar to religion. If you look at the catholic church back in the days only we can interpret the bible. You have to listen to my god, so in a lot of ways, we're getting that same notion from science that says only we can interpret what these numbers are. You just need to trust right, but then, when we actually do go and test some of their equations and they don't work, does that beg the question for us to go and test ourselves? Absolutely, i would say you know one great thing about science.

Is it's predictability? Let's, for some moment for a short moment, assume that your model, this flat earth model is correct. I don't know what does it buy for us? What what does it predict for us? So my question, for you guys, would be next time bring me something from your theory. Your model that you can predict something which the globe earth model cannot predict. Then i would change my mind.

I would just say that, don't believe anything that i've said you got to do your own research and i think what you'll find is that you'll see that a puzzle piece doesn't fit and the only way you're going to do. That is, if you put your own eyeballs on it, i don't blame people for being skeptical, i'm skeptical about a lot of different things. I applaud that instinct in you, but you have to go beyond just not believing in something ask the hard questions ask what qualifies a youtuber a book author anywhere else, you're getting this information. What qualifies them to make wide-ranging comments about the shape of the earth? Look.

Anybody who can overturn einstein or some major theory is going to be eventually written in the halls of science for the rest of their lives, but they have to come up with the goods. They have to show uh good, science-based evidence that what they say is true and they have to withstand the test of time and peer review and the rigors of the scientific method. Thank you. Ali was nice to meet you very nice to meet you.

Thank you hey. I want to get you a relevant video, because democracy basically means government by the people of the people for the people, but the people are um. Give me you.